WiiGeePeeYou (Hollywood) what IS it ?

[Oblivion]

There are NDA (non disclosure agreements) on the hardware because Nintendo don't want to have Wii compare with Xbox 360 and PS3...and there are no dual core because it would be so much power consuming that it's not good for a "17 watts" system

Yeah, I understand there are NDAs, but some people were willing to break them, like the guys IGN asked. And since so many people have dev kits it would be impossible to know who broke what.

And so have we found out how many times better Hollywood is than Flipper? I'm just seeing some comparisons in this thread so just wanna make sure if there was any clarifications.

 

[matrix960]

Yeah, I understand there are NDAs, but some people were willing to break them, like the guys IGN asked. And since so many people have dev kits it would be impossible to know who broke what.

And so have we found out how many times better Hollywood is than Flipper? I'm just seeing some comparisons in this thread so just wanna make sure if there was any clarifications.

Here the facts : some developpers say :"it's like xbox", others :"better than xbox", and I remember Factor 5 saying that on GC and Xbox... So it's very confused

 

[Teasy]

There are NDA (non disclosure agreements) on the hardware because Nintendo don't want to have Wii compare with Xbox 360 and PS3...and there are no dual core because it would be so much power consuming that it's not good for a "17 watts" system

Which is very stupid of Nintendo considering people are already comparing Wii to other systems. If Nintendo allow the actual specs to leak out it can only help, considering most people right now seem to have accepted the misconception that Wii is simply a GC clocked 50% higher.

Also I doubt the system is actuallu 17W at max. After all the game tested wasn't even really a Wii game hardware wise, it was Twilight Princess. I'd best that if a game that actually pushed the hardware a bit was tested the draw would be a bit higher, maybe 25W..

 

[pc999]

And apparently, only one short part of the Rebirth video was on Gamecube...and that part doesn't look mind-blowing, either.

IIRC they said that with more time they could do it all in real-time, if true that is anouther question.

Here the facts : some developpers say :"it's like xbox", others :"better than xbox", and I remember Factor 5 saying that on GC and Xbox... So it's very confused

I think that everybody said XB+ level. BTW there is any last gen game that looks as good as Factor 5 games .

Which is very stupid of Nintendo considering people are already comparing Wii to other systems. If Nintendo allow the actual specs to leak out it can only help, considering most people right now seem to have accepted the misconception that Wii is simply a GC clocked 50% higher.

At this moment it would probably be a good thing.

Is possible dual core, etc?

No dualcore, for that it would need to have at least 22mm^ (well assuming 256KB for each), it very very lucky we may get two FPUs (which I really doubt).

 

[Ty]

Which is very stupid of Nintendo considering people are already comparing Wii to other systems. If Nintendo allow the actual specs to leak out it can only help, considering most people right now seem to have accepted the misconception that Wii is simply a GC clocked 50% higher.

IMO, that would be a bad thing for Nintendo. Their whole POV in this generation is NOT about specs because they choose not to play that game. Releasing the specs would only highlight that to everyone that Wii is indeed, much less powerful than the others. Nothing would be gained even if they released specs that were just a shade below 360/PS3; it would still be the weakest.

I don't think the general public, the wider audience that Nintendo is shooting for, really would bother to parse #s that would be meaningless to them.

 

[Teasy]

IMO, that would be a bad thing for Nintendo. Their whole POV in this generation is NOT about specs because they choose not to play that game. Releasing the specs would only highlight that to everyone that Wii is indeed, much less powerful than the others. Nothing would be gained even if they released specs that were just a shade below 360/PS3; it would still be the weakest.

I don't think the general public, the wider audience that Nintendo is shooting for, really would bother to parse #s that would be meaningless to them.

That would be true if not for the fact that the majority of gamers already believe Wii is simply a GC clocked 50% higher. Considering that widely held belief any leak of true specs would be a good thing. I think Nintendo are thinking along the lines of "The systems specs are so poor that we should hide them and allow people to think they may just be more then they are". But in fact its excepted by the majority of gamers that Wii's specs are actually less then they are.. so to keep hiding the specs is really just stupid. I'm not suggesting Nintendo release a spec sheet either, that would contradict there line on specs not mattering. What I'm saying is they should not block developers from being able to talk about aspects of the Wii hardware.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If it was leaked by developers that Wii was only a shade under 360 or even PS3 of course that would be a positive thing considering what the majority of people currently believe the systems hardware to be.

But it's not. We have enough details to know for sure that Wii is way below XB360 and PS3 in technical power. Specs will just 'confirm' that. Given specs, in your Argos catalogue you'll have the three consoles...

XB360
3 CPUs at 3 GHz each for a total of 9 GHz processing power
Amazing, over 256 GB/s system bandwidth

PS3
7 CPUs at 3 GHz for a mind-blowing 21 GHz of processing power
50 GB/s system bandwidth

Wii
1 CPU at 750 MHz
System bandwidth of 10 GB/s (or whatever it is)

In a specs sheet, Wii will look bad. Nintendo don't want specs being used to describe their product. It's not about specs. For those who care about numbers, even if they're underestimating Wii's power by a considerable degree (say it's 3-4x the performance of GC instead of their belief of 1.5x), it's still not going to help in the relative performance comparison. Wii will still be dramatically inferior in the power stakes to the rivals, such that those who choose by numbers will never buy into it. The people who are going to buy Wii don't give a hoot about the numbers, whether Wii is GC x 1.5 or GC x 3 or GC x 10 whatever.

Only if Wii was slightly less then XB360/PS3 would it matter, and it's not. Nothing like.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

I dont think that most people actually give a sh1t about having a 9Ghz, 21Ghz or 750mhz cpu. I mean, the local toy store advertised with the Wii and ps3 and the same page. The Wii had some story about how fun it is etc while the ps3 had a spec sheet written down. But does your average Joe cares or knows what it means? I dont think so. Besides that, pc specs numbers usually look higher than ps3 specs so in that aspect it isnt even that usefull. Ps3 20 or 60gb hd? while the average pc these days has 200gb. So average Joe might as well think the pc is better.

Anyway I would like to see the specs, but its useless for nintendo to release them. They suck anyway compared to ps3 or x360 they might only suck a little bit less than we think or they might even suck more. In the end, 99% of the people buying Wii couldnt care less probably.

 

[Teasy]

But it's not. We have enough details to know for sure that Wii is way below XB360 and PS3 in technical power. Specs will just 'confirm' that. Given specs, in your Argos catalogue you'll have the three consoles...

I know its not, obviously.. That was just a response to Ty's hypothetical comment. Also don't you realise that websites and catalogs already have those kind of specs listed? Those aren't going to change either way if developers reveal some of the technical inner workings of Wii's hardware.

For those who care about numbers, even if they're underestimating Wii's power by a considerable degree (say it's 3-4x the performance of GC instead of their belief of 1.5x), it's still not going to help in the relative performance comparison. Wii will still be dramatically inferior in the power stakes to the rivals, such that those who choose by numbers will never buy into it. The people who are going to buy Wii don't give a hoot about the numbers, whether Wii is GC x 1.5 or GC x 3 or GC x 10 whatever.

This isn't a black and white situation where you have two kinds of people though. One buys only the console with the biggest specs and the other doesn't care what the specs are no matter how bad. You also have plenty of people in the middle. People who like the Wii and don't care that much about amazing HD graphics but feel they're being ripped off paying $250 for a GC 50% faster with a new controller.

Personally I'd find it very difficult to justify buying Wii at all if I believed it was purely 50% more powerful then GC. As it is I know that with the added memory its already guarenteed to be more then a 50% upgrade. Still even then I might not buy it until it drops substantially in price. If I knew for sure that there was substantial upgrades to the GPU and possibly the CPU I'd feel much better about buying it on launch day.

 

[Teasy]

Anyway I would like to see the specs, but its useless for nintendo to release them. They suck anyway compared to ps3 or x360 they might only suck a little bit less than we think or they might even suck more. In the end, 99% of the people buying Wii couldnt care less probably.

Again I don't think Nintendo should release them, I've said they shouldn't. What they should do is allow developers to talk about them if they wish to. That's not going to change what any catalogue or site like amazon says about the console. But its going to let those people who actually care about such things know that the system isn't as bad as they think hardware wise.

 

[thejeek]

Personally I'd find it very difficult to justify buying Wii if I believed it was only 50% faster then GC. As it is I know better that with the added memory its already more then a 50% upgrade. Still I might not buy it until it drops substantially in price. If I knew that the CPU and GPU where substantial upgraded (or even just the GPU) I'd be much happier about the idea of forking out £179.99 for it on launch day.

Absolutely - personally I'm not prepared to pay 180 quid for a Wii, based on the quality of the launch games and what appears to be in it. If, on the other hand, I knew with some certainty that there was substantial amount of untapped potential (i.e. concrete specs available showing >>50% improvement on Cube), then I might be happier to take a punt on it. Right now it feels poor value for money.

 

[MDX]

Hi Guys,

Im new here and waiting for my Wii, till then I like to speculate what this machine is actually capable of. I was very curious about seeing Broadon on the GPU and what they are all about. Especially because their homepage says nothing about the company. I read earlier that they hold patents, and from there you can find a trail to ex-SGI employees, IQue, and other stuff that really doesnt give much info on how they relate to the Wii. The only thing that I can surmise, is that the GPU is some kind of SoC similar to what has been done for the IQue and they might be behind that.
Ique - is a SoC, Spix (vertex/pixel shading), Uos (unix OS?), Surround stereo, USB. Alsmost sounds like the Wii.

What I also find insteresting is the memory thats in the Wii and was wondering what it relates to or how a developer would use it:
? Qimonda - GDDR 3 (graphics memory-how much)?
512MB of Samsung NAND Flash (used for downloads)?
2MB of Elpida SDRAM (whats this for?)
? of MoSys' patented 1T-SRAM (used as the main embedded memory on the graphics chip and in an additional external memory chip.- how much?)

 

[Teasy]

What I also find insteresting is the memory thats in the Wii and was wondering what it relates to or how a developer would use it?
Qimonda - GDDR 3 (graphics memory-how much)?
512MB of Samsung NAND Flash (used for downloads)?
2MB of Elpida SDRAM (whats this for?)
? of MoSys' patented 1T-SRAM (used as the main embedded memory on the graphics chip and in an additional external memory chip.- how much?)

There's 64MB of GDDR3 memory and IMO it will mostly be used for things not as reliant on lateny (graphics assets ect). The 512MB flash memory will be used both for downloads as well as probably some disc caching to speed up load times. I had no idea there was 2MB of Elpida SDRAM, maybe memory to hold the basic OS?, or for sound data? As far as we know there is the same 3MB of 1T-Sram inside the GPU and by the looks of it 24MB of 1T-Sram on the same package as the GPU. Used as GC ram for GC games and for data that requires low latency access such as game data in Wii games (IMO of course).

EDIT: Ah I see that the Elipida SDRAM is actually part of the optical drive's controller board. So its probably just used for caching data from the disc.

 

[swaaye]

Wii does have amazingly short load times. The drive seems to be quite nice, both fast and quiet. It hear it more in Cube games than Wii games.

 

[RocketMBA]

Absolutely - personally I'm not prepared to pay 180 quid for a Wii, based on the quality of the launch games and what appears to be in it. If, on the other hand, I knew with some certainty that there was substantial amount of untapped potential (i.e. concrete specs available showing >>50% improvement on Cube), then I might be happier to take a punt on it. Right now it feels poor value for money.

Nintendo are hoping that the Z word will change (force?) people's way of thinking about it all.
I must admit, I strongly considered cancelling my Wii pre-order based on what I'd seen and read about the insides of it. Hell, I sat outside the shop for a couple of minutes on the last day of pre-orders before placing my deposit, that's how much it put me off.

I decided to go for it based on future promise - I know, I know, it's stupid to do that, but Nintendo should really put some more of that future promise stuff out there for tightwads like me.

 

[Ty]

That would be true if not for the fact that the majority of gamers already believe Wii is simply a GC clocked 50% higher.

Well I don't think either of us is informed enough to speak about "the majority of gamers".

Here yes, but that's because this community is heavily slanted towards technical interests. The average Kid in Gamestop? He has no clue as to what the #s mean. He'd just look at Mhz and do what Shifty mentioned, add them up in an ignorant fashion and conclude that the Wii sucks; after all, numbers don't lie, right?

What I'm saying is they should not block developers from being able to talk about aspects of the Wii hardware.

Once developers start talking about the hardware, then the information is "free". Magazines, Webstores, etc, all can print whatever information is released. That is, it's not as if Nintendo can let developers talk about specs and then prevent magazines from not reprinting that information.

This isn't a black and white situation where you have two kinds of people though. One buys only the console with the biggest specs and the other doesn't care what the specs are no matter how bad. You also have plenty of people in the middle. People who like the Wii and don't care that much about amazing HD graphics but feel they're being ripped off paying $250 for a GC 50% faster with a new controller.

I agree with everything except for your last statement. I'm not certain at all that there is a sizeable amount of people who fit into this category. Yes, here but again, that's because this crowd is highly technical in nature.

Let me put it this way by giving you a negative example: The Wii managed to sell out quite easily. Therefore there is a large enough audience out there who doesn't have the belief that the Wii is GCN1.5 . So it's my belief that if you give them those numbers, numbers that they're not able to understand the true meaning of, then the Wii will really get a negative connotation in the public's eye.

 

[Teasy]

The kid in GameStop can already see the clock speeds and other basic specs all over the place and conclude Wii's hardware 'sucks'. Magazines and websites already print this kind of stuff, as well as often perpetuating the "Wii is 50% more powerful then GC" myth. Developers being able to talk about the technical details of Wii's hardware isn't going to change that one bit. It'll have no effect on magazines and shopping sites or the general public. But it will let a lot of gamers know that the system isn't as weak as they've been lead to believe. How can that be a bad thing?

Also Wii sold out because there are loads of people who will buy it no matter how powerful it is. Not because there are lots of people who think its more then a 50% overclocked GC. These are the people that won't be effected one bit by developer talk.

 

[thejeek]

Nintendo are hoping that the Z word will change (force?) people's way of thinking about it all.
I must admit, I strongly considered cancelling my Wii pre-order based on what I'd seen and read about the insides of it. Hell, I sat outside the shop for a couple of minutes on the last day of pre-orders before placing my deposit, that's how much it put me off.

I decided to go for it based on future promise - I know, I know, it's stupid to do that, but Nintendo should really put some more of that future promise stuff out there for tightwads like me.

Hmm. I'm one of those rare Nintendo fans who's not keen on Zelda.

I've been awaiting the Wii with initially high but gradually diminishing excitement for a good couple of years. I actually have one on pre-order but I've pretty much decided to wait until the spring now and re-evaluate then whether I really want one based on what games are available then. By the time I've bought a couple of games and extra controllers I'll be looking at nearly three hundred pounds, which is difficult to justify to myself.

 

[swaaye]

Yeah I'm not so sure why I went out and bought the Wii immediately. I think I just wanted a new console lol. I'm not big on the Japanese sorta-kiddy-ish Zelda style myself either, but I'm playing it (about 10 hours in). I'm not sure what people go bonkers about here (probably some sort of self-prepetuating mass delusion / Nintendo = religion fan boy-dom).

It's a quality game, somewhat pretty and with high production values, but it's not really gripping me intensely. It's a lot like Ocarina of Time, with the same baddies, similar places, similar peoples, even similar music. It's basically a really simple RPG in many ways I suppose, more an action adventure tho. The entire atmosphere is really very high-energy happy joy joy (even the bad guys) with dark overtones in the fairly cool Twilight areas. I think you really need to be able to enjoy the cutesy art/atmosphere to really get into the game.

I also find the Wiimote to be a fairly annoying way to play the game, honestly. I have a hard time keeping track of the buttons. IMO Wii's button layout is pretty bad. It's difficult to use the buttons below the big "A" button and the triggers on each. You need to readjust your hold on the remote to use the lower buttons. Or maybe twist your thumb 90 degrees down!

I'm somewhat disappointed by Wii's upcoming titles, as shown by another thread on the forum here. Capcom's RE game is the most interesting to me. Mario might be interesting, but that is going to be another very "youthful" themed game and I think I may have lost interest in Nintendo's style there. Metroid Prime 3 might be decent, but I couldn't stand all the backtracking and respawning bad guys in the Cube titles. That's obviously just how Metroid is though. The last Metroid I really enjoyed was Metroid 2 on GB back when I ws probably 12-13 yrs old.

I am fairly horrified by how god-awful CoD3, GT racing, and Far Cry look. There is no way I'm putting down $50 on those games, especially since they don't even look/sound fun (ports). And I'm not going to sit here and pretend it is entirely because the devs had absolutely no clue what the real hardware would be. That is extremely unlikely IMO.

On the other hand, some of the upcoming 360 RPGs may just get me to buy that system finally. Bioware's Mass Effect especially. I love sci-fi RPGs. I'm also looking forward to having a new, decent racer. And Forza 2 could fit that bill. There is basically nothing coming for Wii in that genre.

 

[Oblivion]

[Moderated]


Anyyyyyway. About the "not releasing specs" chat we were having, I really don't see what more harm it could do if the specs were revealed. Everyone except the most casual of casuals knows that Wii is significantly weaker than the other two consoles. At least if we have specs that can really tell us what the damn thing is capable of, people will at least be somewhat relieved to know it's not just a 50% overclock.