Dithered to 24bit? 24bit and 32bit have the same amount of colors. 32bit either has an additional 8bit alpha (not needed for a framebuffer), or it's simply 24bit color padded to 32bit...
WiiGeePeeYou (Hollywood) what IS it ?
- Thread starter Megadrive1988
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if we assume that the pad is 1mm at the edge of the chip that mean we have 8*7 mm of chip area.
It is 56 sq mm.
the original GC chip was 120 sq mm, so the simplest de scaling give us 30 sqmm.
30% of the flipper die arrea is used for the frame+texture buffer,so if we say that we have the same amount of mem in that case we can have 2* more system logic on the chip.
The additional chip area is even bigger than the cpu.
And if we assume that it is used only for increase the quality of the graphics and (possibly) the psy sim instead of the bigger frame size...So, I think in the future we will see stunning graphics and gameplay.
It is 56 sq mm.
the original GC chip was 120 sq mm, so the simplest de scaling give us 30 sqmm.
30% of the flipper die arrea is used for the frame+texture buffer,so if we say that we have the same amount of mem in that case we can have 2* more system logic on the chip.
The additional chip area is even bigger than the cpu.
And if we assume that it is used only for increase the quality of the graphics and (possibly) the psy sim instead of the bigger frame size...So, I think in the future we will see stunning graphics and gameplay.
The flipper using special framebuffer and the current frame,that one that sitting in the main 1t mem is use a special 16 bit format,but it is on-fly transformed from the 24 bit frame buffer format.
Wasn't there 10bit per component + 2bit alpha format too?
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Do you have a source on that? i've only seen videos and screens but to me RS only got updated over time.
Here is a new SSB trailer (http://a609.g.akamai.net/f/609/28292/1m/www.nintendo.co.jp/smash/jp/movie02.swf). Doesnt that looks pretty good?
In what way? Relative to previous trailers, or in it's own graphics?
My first answer to your question was a straight-forward 'no'. It's visually simple, yet there's nothing clever happening there in the lighting department or shading or texture quality etc. Is this a GC port? Pangya golf game has self shadowing and nice shading, so the hardware seems up to the job. It's hard to gauge the machines abilties from trailers at the mo', as it looks like a lot of titles are being pretty much lifted from GC development, with just a few titles hinting at better abilities.
Yes the SSBB trailer looks good, but SSBM still looks good today. SSBM was also pretty much a launch title, so I'm not sure if I'd say SSBB is well out of the capabilities of a GameCube. They do seem to be making good use of the additional ram for larger environments and better texture quality, but polygon counts and special effects don't look substantially better than SSBM.
As for Red Steel, I'd say the lighting in this http://media.wii.ign.com/media/821/821973/img_3582389.html
looks better than the final game shot http://media.wii.ign.com/media/821/821973/img_3981186.html here. Red Steel originally looked somewhat next genish, but the final version looked more like the James Bond games form last gen.
That old Red Steel shot also appears to have physics, like the tie moving and the money flying up in the air, that I'd be surprised if it actually made it into the game.
Though looking back, the only thing Rayman lost was some rather bad looking fur shading, but the final product looks along the lines of a PS2 or Dreamcast game. It's a multiplatform title slated to come to PSP, PC, and possibly PS2 though, so I'm sure graphics were never the point, but it's got some ridiculous slowdown on some rather not graphically intensive scenes.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
No i mean on its own. I dont know that much about effects and stuff but things look crisp with a decent amount of detail in the characters. If you compare it to the wii launchtitels it atleast looks like devs took some time to polish it instead of doing some n64like FC gfx even though it might not be that great from a technical pov.
That one screen is a promo shot from ubi wich they polish up afterwards (they made a couple of those). Its not a actual ingame screenshot (wich all look worse).
That one screen is a promo shot from ubi wich they polish up afterwards (they made a couple of those). Its not a actual ingame screenshot (wich all look worse).
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The most disappointing part is that this is supposed to be a next-gen game on a next-gen console and Samus ain't got no jiggle goin' on. It's the little (and perverted) things like that which would set it apart.
nihilistcanada
Newcomer
That smash brothers video disappeared. I found what i think is the same one on the official site.
http://www.smashbros.com/en/movie/movie02.html
There is no way that could have been done on a Cube at all.
I think that what a lot of people are missing is that the Wii games we see now were done on dev kits that had zero to do with what was really shipping. Sure the kits and the hardware could run Cube games just fine if not a little faster but the real power was not available to developers untill just very recently.
Smash Brothers for the Wii looks almost 360 ish. No apparent slow down despite 4 characters on the screen at once with tons of effects and rather busy backgrounds.
Whatever the Wii trully is underneath it is amazingly powerful for the price and power budget.
http://www.smashbros.com/en/movie/movie02.html
There is no way that could have been done on a Cube at all.
I think that what a lot of people are missing is that the Wii games we see now were done on dev kits that had zero to do with what was really shipping. Sure the kits and the hardware could run Cube games just fine if not a little faster but the real power was not available to developers untill just very recently.
Smash Brothers for the Wii looks almost 360 ish. No apparent slow down despite 4 characters on the screen at once with tons of effects and rather busy backgrounds.
Whatever the Wii trully is underneath it is amazingly powerful for the price and power budget.
The GDDR3 and 1T-Sram memory pools will likely have the same bandwidth (3.9GB/s each). So really the only difference will be space and latency. There's no way developers will try to avoid the 64MB GDDR3 memory, since its the biggest pool of memory by far in the system. They'll just use it for things appropriate to its strengths, those being plenty of storage (compared to the 1T-Sram) and decent bandwidth, basically as graphics memory.
Definitely yeah, 3.9GB/s of high latency memory is far to slow, but add another smaller pool of of low latency memory also with 3.9GB/s and it starts to make sense a bit. As you say graphics assets such as textures usually take up by far the biggest percentage of memory in games, and also are less reliant on latency then game data. So in effect you have the 24MB of low latency memory for game data and the 64MB of high latency memory for graphics assets. Obviously either memory pool will be usable for whatever a developer wants but I'd guess this is the way most developers will want to use it.
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Not only is "next gen" not an adjective, despite all the bullshitting from various PR folk, it wouldn't even be useful if it were. As a category catcher it plain doesn't work. If you need more words to explain what it means than you hoped to save by using a catch-all, it's time to just drop it under the rug and forget about it.
If you mean "360 and PS3" just say that. If you mean "Wii" just say that. If you mean "360, PS3 and Wii" just say that. Please.
We dont have the info needed to tell that, at least not yet.
Anyway IMO if it is upgraded to 3x the polys/s, vertex shaders, a beffier TEV, something for physics, I wouldnt be inclined to call it last gen that easy, althought I wouldnt call it a next gen too.
Actually I think that in some Wii games (Mario, MP3, this one...) I think that the lighting is one of the things that really improved.
About the Pangya game, if they are using the same method than Factor 5 for self shadowing, then it is need some CPU work, it may not be possible to put it in every game (on the other side I guess that SW had much more CPU work than any of this games).
Whatever is inside of the Wii, given the die sizes it is really cheap, not worthing anything near of that kind of prince.
IIRC Faf said that the BW diferences between the GDDR and the 1T-Sram is similar to the diferences between XDR and GDDR3 on the PS3.
crazygambit
Regular
I'm sorry I've been trying to follow this thread and the other one about the Broadway, but at more than 90 pages and with the other with around 10 you'll forgive me for getting lost.
Can anyone give a quick summary please of what we know now that the hardware is out and we've peeked inside? Thanks a lot.
Can anyone give a quick summary please of what we know now that the hardware is out and we've peeked inside? Thanks a lot.
Wii contains the following major ICs:
Broadway - PowerPC CPU based on shrink of GameCube's Gekko to 90nm but possibly with modest amount of unknown additional logic. Rumored clock is 729MHz
Hollywood - GPU. We think this is a superset of Flipper and rumoured clock is 243 MHz. It appears too large to be a straight strink of Flipper to 90nm but it's unclear what additional functionality it may contain. Possibilities include larger framebuffer and/or texture cache, additional TEV or (unlikely) some kind of physics accellerator. Whatever additional functionallity it contains has not resulted in massive IQ improvements over Cube games, at least in launch titles. Broadway presumably also contains an audio DSP backwards compatible with the one in the cube and other system logic, including Wi-Fi support
On the same package as Hollywood but on a separate die is 24MB of 1-T memory - similar to but presumably faster than the main memory in the Cube.
Finally there is a single 64MB GDDR chip taking total system memory (excluding memory embedded within Broadway) to 88MB.
Broadway - PowerPC CPU based on shrink of GameCube's Gekko to 90nm but possibly with modest amount of unknown additional logic. Rumored clock is 729MHz
Hollywood - GPU. We think this is a superset of Flipper and rumoured clock is 243 MHz. It appears too large to be a straight strink of Flipper to 90nm but it's unclear what additional functionality it may contain. Possibilities include larger framebuffer and/or texture cache, additional TEV or (unlikely) some kind of physics accellerator. Whatever additional functionallity it contains has not resulted in massive IQ improvements over Cube games, at least in launch titles. Broadway presumably also contains an audio DSP backwards compatible with the one in the cube and other system logic, including Wi-Fi support
On the same package as Hollywood but on a separate die is 24MB of 1-T memory - similar to but presumably faster than the main memory in the Cube.
Finally there is a single 64MB GDDR chip taking total system memory (excluding memory embedded within Broadway) to 88MB.
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Looking at the SSBB trailer again, at first I have to disagree. I see nothing other than a mix of standard vertex lighting and textures. But on closer inspection, it actually seems to mix up lighting styles. Looking at Pikachu, in the cartoony-background level where he first appears, he's shaded a lot better then the 'cross the road' type level that seems to be mimickng N64 I think. Which is...odd!
Murakami
Regular
What happened to A-Ram?
Murakami
Regular
I suppose too: thanks.
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