Wii Ware info.

[ERP]

As in anyone who can afford the devkit (which is relatively cheap), develop something that passes basic technical scritiny (doesn't crash the system) and pays the ESRB to get a rating (which is cheap for low budget titles).

Specifically I think the intention is they want to open it up outside of established publishers and developers. I beleieve the 1/entity/month is specifically designed to stop the big guys (popcap/ea/etc) from flooding the market on day one.

 

[ninzel]

Well besides interesting new styles of games,my biggest hope for Wii Ware is that we finally see the realization of different pricing models that Iwata talked about for new games and that games that shouldn't be at retail find the appropriate place.
Geometry Wars Galaxies is a perfect example. That game shouldn't be a full retail game selling for full price and I think it does the game a disservice to offer it that way,but where else can it go on the Wii. The Virtual console is for old games.

 

[liuelson]

As in anyone who can afford the devkit (which is relatively cheap), develop something that passes basic technical scritiny (doesn't crash the system) and pays the ESRB to get a rating (which is cheap for low budget titles).

Specifically I think the intention is they want to open it up outside of established publishers and developers.

Do you think there's potential in this model for innovation in non-game software? As someone who works in the education industry, I would be interested in a Wii Ware title that could serve as a distance learning platform, for example. In that case, I could see a university project trying to get something like that published.

 

[ERP]

Do you think there's potential in this model for innovation in non-game software? As someone who works in the education industry, I would be interested in a Wii Ware title that could serve as a distance learning platform, for example. In that case, I could see a university project trying to get something like that published.

Probably the biggest constraint is the memory.
I'm not sure if there are any restrictions on network connectivity, but I wouldn't imagine so.
It's hard to say how the ESRB would react to something like that, and that might end up being the bigger issue.

If I were a University considering something like this, I'd float the idea with someone internally at NOA, and have them bounce it around internally. Submission rules are bent all the time in games, even if there were potential ESRB issues (and I'm not sure there are), IMO it would probably be a pretty easy sell if you weren't expecting N to front money for it.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Here are three WiiWare developers offering diverse opinions on the platform. Point of note is a remark that one dev places the size limit at around 40 MB.

 

[vazel]

If the WiiWare response isn’t as positive as you were hoping for, will you consider releasing your title as a boxed copy or taking it to one of the other online services?

Braben: Well we see this as a Wii game. Of course there is the possibility later of doing a full disc space game but that’s something we’ll look at, we’ll see how it’s received and of course, it’s a story, so we’re hoping that we’ll also be able to follow it on the Wii with more stories if you like.

Grossman: Sure, I imagine we would do that. With the Sam and Max titles we certainly started in one place with GameTap and released them later on via our own sites and then later still through other channels, so if there turns out to be life in these games over the long term you might see them on more platforms, certainly.

Swartz: Well, this game is for WiiWare, that is what it was developed for. In the future would I be open to doing other games using the characters and the settings and the universe? Yeah, of course. I really, really believe in Major League Eating and the franchise, but would I take this particular game and just move it over? No. This game is for WiiWare.

If they start doing special edition disc releases of WiiWare games I am so done with the service.

 

[Mobius1aic]

Well if this gets popular, Nintendo better get off their asses and release an external harddrive or something for mass storage. 512 MB is barely anything.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

How much of that 512 MBs is taken up with general stuff? At 40 MB's a game, you'll be able to fit ten on at a time, and 40 MB's isn't much of a download if you remove a game and then change your mind. Also if they support the SD flash drive for games, you can use multiple cheap gigabyte memory cards. I don't think an HDD is on the cards.

 

[vazel]

The Wii only lets you use 2000 blocks(256MB). LostWinds uses 258 blocks(33MB). Nintendo urges developers to keep the sizes of games low and they're leading by example with that basic looking Pokemon Ranch game and Dr. Mario which uses only 11MB.

The problem with flash cards is you can't run games off them. You have to do some shuffling to move something off the Wii to the flash card to have enough room to move the game you want to play from the flash card onto the Wii so you can play it. Transfer times take minutes and also depend on the quality of your flash card.

Although I don't believe the Wii's storage is going to be a problem for most people. I petered out at about 15 VC purchases. And I don't see myself buying more than about 5 WiiWare games. I would consider that average.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Gosh, at well under 40 MBs, scope for these games seems pretty limited. Lost Winds looks fabulous, but the screenshots don't show much variety of scenery. What's the size like? I'm somewhat expecting it to be a level from a disk game. And if that's a larger title, anything graphically advanced will likely be very...bijou. It'll suit old-skool 2D to a tee, but I hope the more adventurous titles aren't constrained to being too short to be satisfying.

 

[Zassk]

The problem with flash cards is you can't run games off them.

Allowing this would be a logical remedy to the current situation.

 

[vazel]

LostWinds consisted of one village and several caves. The developers were spot on when they said it would take about three hours to beat. It played out like an episode. They're obviously planning more episodes since the game ended in a 'to be continued' without beating the bad guy.

 

[ninzel]

Any industry insiders care to guess on the cost to develop these games?
Less than a large DS game but more than $100,000?

 

[DeadlyNinja]

Gosh, at well under 40 MBs, scope for these games seems pretty limited.

Is it really that big of an issue? I mean, most N64 games don't hit 40 MB. I know the Wii can use high resolution textures than the N64, and that takes up space, but what else?

Oh and LostWinds is about 3 hours according to all the reviews. You have to understand this is a $10 game that plays and LOOKS better than most $50 games.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Is it really that big of an issue? I mean, most N64 games don't hit 40 MB. I know the Wii can use high resolution textures than the N64, and that takes up space, but what else?

Why do you think games have progressed beyond 600 MB CDs and onto DVDs?! Assets take a lot. Higher resolution models take up more space than low-res models. Audio takes up some megabytes. If you go for quality, you'll need to cut back on quantity.

Oh and LostWinds is about 3 hours according to all the reviews. You have to understand this is a $10 game that plays and LOOKS better than most $50 games.

Three hours would be enough for me to really be enjoying it only be disappointed it stops! so titles will be very bite sized, or very simple. Things like N+ or Echochrome will work, highly stylized, simplified visuals, or 2D shooters etc. There's quite a constraint on devs though, limiting what they can produce. Though they don't have the cost risks of producing a full-blown disc-game, they haven't the opportunity of creating much beyond a taster of a concept. From a developer POV more room to work would have to be nice, even if you don't care to use it all for your choice of game.

 

[vazel]

Is it really that big of an issue? I mean, most N64 games don't hit 40 MB. I know the Wii can use high resolution textures than the N64, and that takes up space, but what else?

Oh and LostWinds is about 3 hours according to all the reviews. You have to understand this is a $10 game that plays and LOOKS better than most $50 games.

Not just textures but also more polys. The models in LostWinds are some of the best looking on Wii. On the N64 we got entire games on the standard cartridge size of 32MB. On LostWinds we got a village and several caves on 33MB. Although at $10 it's priced just right especially considering the innovative gameplay we get to experience.

Three hours would be enough for me to really be enjoying it only be disappointed it stops! so titles will be very bite sized, or very simple. Things like N+ or Echochrome will work, highly stylized, simplified visuals, or 2D shooters etc. There's quite a constraint on devs though, limiting what they can produce. Though they don't have the cost risks of producing a full-blown disc-game, they haven't the opportunity of creating much beyond a taster of a concept. From a developer POV more room to work would have to be nice, even if you don't care to use it all for your choice of game.

With LostWinds as an indication it seems they're going to solve that problem by making the games into episodes. They really should've stuck Episode 1 into the LostWinds title since it's obvious that's what they're planning. And at the end of the game you get a new cape skill that you barely get to use although I'm sure it'll carry over into the confirmed sequel.

 

[vazel]

An interview with SquareEnix about WiiWare that talks about the size limit. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3655/content_kings_square_enixs_.php

 

[ninzel]

I think the real issue is pricing.
Whether it's a really short high quality game, or a simple fun but long lasting game as long as it's priced right there is room for them all. I'm not expecting anything near EPIC out of WiiWare so the games as they are not a problem for me.
I do on the other have a problem with a game like Lost Winds being $10, $7-8 seems more fair.

 

[vazel]

Consider that an average game lasts 12 hours for $50 or $60 for x360/ps3. $10 for the 3 hour well produced LostWinds is fair. And you're getting unique innnovative gameplay so it's not like it's just another platformer.

 

[ninzel]

I don't think these short little games like Lost Wind are competing directly with full games. Even if they are a one time play through at 3 hours with presumably no replay value, IMO it still doesn't compare well value wise to a full game for $50.
I actually think that these games are competing with more impulse buys like a DVD rentals or an older DVD purchase. Things like that.