Wich card is the king of the hill (nv40 or R420)

[Gollum]

Wow, I'm quite stunned by the poll result so far. Looks like this was another R300 va. NV30 all over again, which I think is definitely not the case. Probably says more about the mind-share of the companies than anything else. Nvidia's "optimization" strategy comes back to haunt them, people don't trust them anymore even if the product itself seems to be actually good this time.

I think both cards are pretty evenly matched, IQ and performance is almost a draw. A slight edge for ATI here and Nvidia there, but overall both almost stunningly good. Feature wise Nvidia has the edge, 3Dc or not. I see power consumption and heat as the two most significant arguments that can be made against NV40 (with the official power requirements being lowered even that doesn't seem to be quite as bad as anticipated though).

If I had the opportunity to choose between the absolute high-end cards, I'd probably go with the X800 XT Platinum Edition, unfortunatelly I cannot afford such luxury. In the price segment that is attractive for me, it looks to be a different battle. The 6800 GT might just be the better alternative than the X800Pro. As a pro 3D app user I must say that Nvidia's OGL drivers still devestate ATI's in that field. Since gaming performance, IQ and price are going to be close, for me personally Nvidia might turn out to be the more attractive solution this time...

 

[trinibwoy]

Wow, I'm quite stunned by the poll result so far. Looks like this was another R300 va. NV30 all over again, which I think is definitely not the case. Probably says more about the mind-share of the companies than anything else. Nvidia's "optimization" strategy comes back to haunt them, people don't trust them anymore even if the product itself seems to be actually good this time.

In addition to Nvidia's past infractions I think the NV40's power requirements are the strongest negative affecting the polls. Then you have to factor in voter bias which I think is skewed on this particular forum and also the fact that in graphics wars it's usually compelling to pick a winner. And in this case if you were to pick a winner you would have to go with ATI given the preliminary tests and info that we have in hand at the moment.

 

[Quitch]

I think the poll result is misleading in that you've seen it as a sign of the thoughts of "R3xx Vs nv3x", but that was a one-sided battle. I believe the above represents a lot of people who feel that ATI "edge it".

 

[Randell]

have to factor in voter bias which I think is skewed on this particular forum

pfft find me an unbiased forum.

 

[Quitch]

I think he means most of the people here don't like (and there's an abuse of the word) the card (*cough* company*cough*) he does, so we're biased. LOL!

 

[ANova]

I don't care for nvidia at all as a company, but I must admit the 6800 is a step in the right direction. However, I cannot overlook the advantages the X800 has either, which at this point seem to outweight the competition.

 

[trinibwoy]

I think he means most of the people here don't like (and there's an abuse of the word) the card (*cough* company*cough*) he does, so we're biased. LOL!

To take the bait or not to take the bait...that is the question

Stop trolling Quitchie and you proved my point anyway ..... most of the people here don't like blah blah blah.....indicates a preference

Anyway as mentioned above all forums are biased in some respect and from my time here I feel ATI has more support. Even Dave seems to defend ATI alot I think even though Nvidia is attacked more......you can ban me now 8)

 

[Dave Baumann]

Defend - or providing information that I know about? There's a difference.

 

[trinibwoy]

Defend - or providing information that I know about? There's a difference.

Yeah that's what I meant. You seem to have more hard info on the ATI side of things. Guess that's a good reason for you chiming in more often on those issues.

 

[martrox]

I personally think there is a biased person posting in this thread....Care t(rinibw)o guess who?

 

[PatrickL]

For some months now Nvidia fans are coming here to accuse this forum to be biased as none of the Nvidia PR is accepted at face value. They just refuse to acknowledge that there are tons of reasons since NV30 launch to act that way.

 

[trinibwoy]

I personally think there is a biased person posting in this thread....Care t(rinibw)o guess who?

Based on what? Cause I don't worship ATI or B3D? Please tell me how to conform to the status quo

For some months now Nvidia fans are coming here to accuse this forum to be biased as none of the Nvidia PR is accepted at face value. They just refuse to acknowledge that there are tons of reasons since NV30 launch to act that way.

So this forum isn't biased in any way, shape or form? That is very impressive. Comments like 'Nvidia fans are coming here....' led me to those observations in the first place. They portray Nvidia supporters as outsiders to the core population of B3D 'ATI fans'.

Not trying to get flamed just making an observation. From the reactions I'm getting it seems I might have a point 8)

 

[Sabastian]

Wow, I'm quite stunned by the poll result so far. Looks like this was another R300 va. NV30 all over again, which I think is definitely not the case. Probably says more about the mind-share of the companies than anything else. Nvidia's "optimization" strategy comes back to haunt them, people don't trust them anymore even if the product itself seems to be actually good this time.

.

I'm not horribly astounded really. Before the launch of the R300 series you could easily reverse the results. Popularity counts.. NV spent the last couple of years squandering theirs while ATi made huge inroads with their driver support and hardware performance. If all things are equal (performance/stability) then silly factors like popularity really do start to count. I've seen similar results all over the net. NV had better keep its nose clean here and walk a straight and narrow line to get back into the hearts of 3D Hardware enthusiast. While the performance disparities were narrow, the performance edge has been given to ATi. PS3.0 isn't as big of a seller as NV management makes it out to be yet. The power supply matter is seen as a negative as well as the heat and size disparities. Now we are seeing availability matters.

I'm just not surprised about the results given that ATi has become very popular amongst the 3D aficionado crowd. Maybe in a few months if NV keeps their nose clean and the NV40 becomes available we would see different results? I really think that nVidia is facing an uphill battle here though. They haven't got the hardware that absolutely crushes the competition like ATi did with the R300.

 

[Tim Murray]

So this forum isn't biased in any way, shape or form? That is very impressive. Comments like 'Nvidia fans are coming here....' led me to those observations in the first place. They portray Nvidia supporters as outsiders to the core population of B3D 'ATI fans'.

Not trying to get flamed just making an observation. From the reactions I'm getting it seems I might have a point 8)

Um, "NVIDIA fans" accept NVIDIA FUD (like the "Oh, you don't need a giant power supply!" remark when BFG's testing basically proves that it's not true) without any checking. That's what separates a "fan" from "people who prefer NVIDIA products based on their strengths and not imagined flaws with ATI products." (For example, Chalnoth's "THE DRIVERS! TOO MANY REBOOTS!" stuff is an imagined flaw with an ATI product. C'mon, I had to bring it up.)

 

[Quitch]

I think he means most of the people here don't like (and there's an abuse of the word) the card (*cough* company*cough*) he does, so we're biased. LOL!

To take the bait or not to take the bait...that is the question

Stop trolling Quitchie and you proved my point anyway ..... most of the people here don't like blah blah blah.....indicates a preference

Anyway as mentioned above all forums are biased in some respect and from my time here I feel ATI has more support. Even Dave seems to defend ATI alot I think even though Nvidia is attacked more......you can ban me now 8)

*sigh* I didn't say that I thought most people here favoured ATI, please read my post again.

Frankly, any forum that knows anything about 3D hardware is going to have an ATI bias at the moment, it's hardly surprising, the best cards out on the market are FROM ATI. There bias and then there's bias. You need to learn the difference.

 

[trinibwoy]

Frankly, any forum that knows anything about 3D hardware is going to have an ATI bias at the moment, it's hardly surprising, the best cards out on the market are FROM ATI.

So we agree then.

There bias and then there's bias. You need to learn the difference.

You need to not be patronizing. People with real intelligence rarely have cause to.

 

[DeanoC]

NV40 is a much better card for us at the moment, VS 3.0 (and geometry instances) and FP16 blending make all the difference for a developer working with next-gen level graphics. Maybe if you playing games then R420 based cards are better but for developers NV40 are best at the moment no doubt.

As always different horses for different courses.

 

[Mark]

NV40 is a much better card for us at the moment, VS 3.0 (and geometry instances) and FP16 blending make all the difference for a developer working with next-gen level graphics. Maybe if you playing games then R420 based cards are better but for developers NV40 are best at the moment no doubt.

As always different horses for different courses.

I don't think that statement should be a surprise to anyone here.

Just out of curiosity, what would you have said if you were to go back in time and make the same statement, say, this time last year?

 

[webmedic]

NV40 is a much better card for us at the moment, VS 3.0 (and geometry instances) and FP16 blending make all the difference for a developer working with next-gen level graphics. Maybe if you playing games then R420 based cards are better but for developers NV40 are best at the moment no doubt.

As always different horses for different courses.

well fp16 blending really depends on 2 things how hard it is to impliment and how many cards can do it. if the majority of the market dont have the ability and it is to much effort for game devs to impliment then it becomes another worthless feature.


The vs 3.0 is a true statement though.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

For developers yes .. but alot of us ain't developers .. and ATI is the best for consumers atm(except those that can't acknowledge that Nvidia ain't on top of the hill again).

All my GC's have been Nvidia's .. but now it is time for an ATI.

btw Dave.. how are those alpha OGL drivers coming along or haven't you got hold of them yet?

US