Wich card is the king of the hill (nv40 or R420)

[Atomahawk]

nVidia, however, should be releasing the rest of the NV4x line by the end of the year, including a value part that will make SM 3.0, including floating point buffer support, available to the masses.

And in 2 to 4 months ATI will have their value part packed and shipped and being sold while Nvidia do's what? Sell what? While they get their value part together for a hypothetical huge support for PS 3.0? at the end of the year? I do hope you understand the concept of first to market! It’s simple business process that says the first one on store shelves makes money, and ties up retailers ability to shelf something else. What the competitor doesn’t make now they cannot make up! Do you see the 2 fold benefit to the principle “it makes you money and hurts your competitorâ€￾.

That is a huge gamble Nvidia is taking for PS 3.0, but that’s just my opinion.

 

[Big Bertha EA]

38% of the dominating cards to play online games with are powered by DX6-DX7 class video cards...with NO pixel shader support at all. So when I see comments about ATI holding back technology, I just simply laugh.

There ya go...in a nutshell THIS is what is holding back the industry, not ATI nor nVidia.

 

[Big Bertha EA]

nVidia, however, should be releasing the rest of the NV4x line by the end of the year, including a value part that will make SM 3.0, including floating point buffer support, available to the masses.

The masses? I highly doubt "the masses" can be included when it is painfully obvious that "the masses" are mired in 2-4 year old technology...you know, "the masses" who buy the vast majority of PC games today.

I think you might consider re-evaluating your definition of "the masses" because I do not see "the masses" having SM 3.0 capabilities with ANY strength in numbers for another 2-4 years....

 

[Rican]

Whats holding developers back, the truth !!

http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html

956900 Submitted Surveys. (Almost 1 Million People)

NVidia GeForce4 MX Series 147,398 15.40 %
NVidia GeForce4 Series 117,106 12.24 %
NVidia GeForce2 MX Series 104,682 10.94 %

38% of the dominating cards to play online games with are powered by DX6-DX7 class video cards...with NO pixel shader support at all. So when I see comments about ATI holding back technology, I just simply laugh.

wow didnt think that many people have nv cards wait i have a ti 4400

 

[webmedic]

Possibly You are correct. ALthough how soon till cairo is going to be widley used. I dont think it will be for a few years yet. Hopefully both of them get better within a few years.

The issue is not wheather they work well but rather that they are linked against libs that dont exist outside of nvidia and so a fair number of apps crash back to the dektop without really working at all. The ones that do work work just fine but maybe 1/3 or so fail to run at all. I hope that explains a little better.

 

[webmedic]

38% of the dominating cards to play online games with are powered by DX6-DX7 class video cards...with NO pixel shader support at all. So when I see comments about ATI holding back technology, I just simply laugh.

There ya go...in a nutshell THIS is what is holding back the industry, not ATI nor nVidia.

um that 38% is most definately nvidia based hardware.

 

[thop]

I think that survery is worthless, take a look.

Game Screen Depth

16 bpp - 60.53 %
32 bpp - 18.40 %

Game Screen Width

640 pixels - 15.27 %
800 pixels - 19.18 %
1,024 pixels - 28.88 %

 

[Rican]

i have a question is the X800XT PE(or whatever is called) a limited edition card ,is there also going to be a regular XT version and what would be the clocks for the XT?

 

[Eronarn]

38% of the dominating cards to play online games with are powered by DX6-DX7 class video cards...with NO pixel shader support at all. So when I see comments about ATI holding back technology, I just simply laugh.

There ya go...in a nutshell THIS is what is holding back the industry, not ATI nor nVidia.

The solution is to rig all graphics cards to submit a secure order to the ATI or Nvidia site respectively after being in use for two years, order the current high-end model, and explode after it does so. 8)

 

[webmedic]

I think that survery is worthless, take a look.

Game Screen Depth

16 bpp - 60.53 %
32 bpp - 18.40 %

Game Screen Width

640 pixels - 15.27 %
800 pixels - 19.18 %
1,024 pixels - 28.88 %

not really with old hardware what do you do to get the game to play faster. You drop the color depth and up your res to play. Honestly though how many of those people have thier desctop set to 1024 and then think they are playing games at that when they are really playing at 800 or possibly 640.

Most of these users are not tech savy at all.

 

[Eronarn]

38% of the dominating cards to play online games with are powered by DX6-DX7 class video cards...with NO pixel shader support at all. So when I see comments about ATI holding back technology, I just simply laugh.

There ya go...in a nutshell THIS is what is holding back the industry, not ATI nor nVidia.

um that 38% is most definately nvidia based hardware.

Yes, but it's not like Nvidia is holding back people from buying new cards. I'm a fanboy, sure, but it's retarded to blame them for EVERYTHING.

And as for the 16bpp thing? It's because people don't know how to configure their computers, since they're only playing CS. 8)

 

[webmedic]

yes lets not forget who accounts for another fair share of that low end market. INtel and it's not like thier cards are known for well you know what they dont do even worse than those nvidia cards.

 

[mozmo]

Heh i wouldn't care to much for those valve survey results, you do realise most valve customers are cs freaks, the whole community plays this same game over and over and it's comprised of very young kids who use antique hardware and usually can't afford to buy and play the latest pc games. Comparing the hardware base for HL1 based mods to say people who play battlefield or UT2k3/2k4 and other online games built in the last 2 years and you'd get a vastly different picture of the norm in hardware. If i was a game dev i certainly wouldn't be targeting the cs audience for my game, it would be futile and pointless.

BTW with respect to nv40, where i live i'll probably see the XT in around 2months, in that time a lot can happen and to be honest i think there's a lot more to the nv40 that we've yet to see, we have no idea what sm3.0 will bring and we don't even have dx9.0c to test it, plus the the drivers are still very raw and with all new architectures i'd expect the driver team to unlock the potential the card has. ATI on the other hand i feel it's what you see is what you get, drivers and architecture is quite mature, drivers won't give much improvement in performance, hell i'm certain of that since latest cats have done nothing to really improve performance, which says to me there isn't much more they ring out of the architecture, the only improvement with the XT you could see is in the opengl area if a rewrite if the opengl drivers is really underway.

 

[Ardrid]

i have a question is the X800XT PE(or whatever is called) a limited edition card ,is there also going to be a regular XT version and what would be the clocks for the XT?

By all accounts the X800 XT PE will be widely available and for the time being it's the only XT card in ATI's lineup.

 

[Rican]

i have a question is the X800XT PE(or whatever is called) a limited edition card ,is there also going to be a regular XT version and what would be the clocks for the XT?

By all accounts the X800 XT PE will be widely available and for the time being it's the only XT card in ATI's lineup.

oh thanxz

 

[pakotlar]

Heh i wouldn't care to much for those valve survey results, you do realise most valve customers are cs freaks, the whole community plays this same game over and over and it's comprised of very young kids who use antique hardware and usually can't afford to buy and play the latest pc games. Comparing the hardware base for HL1 based mods to say people who play battlefield or UT2k3/2k4 and other online games built in the last 2 years and you'd get a vastly different picture of the norm in hardware. If i was a game dev i certainly wouldn't be targeting the cs audience for my game, it would be futile and pointless.

BTW with respect to nv40, where i live i'll probably see the XT in around 2months, in that time a lot can happen and to be honest i think there's a lot more to the nv40 that we've yet to see, we have no idea what sm3.0 will bring and we don't even have dx9.0c to test it, plus the the drivers are still very raw and with all new architectures i'd expect the driver team to unlock the potential the card has. ATI on the other hand i feel it's what you see is what you get, drivers and architecture is quite mature, drivers won't give much improvement in performance, hell i'm certain of that since latest cats have done nothing to really improve performance, which says to me there isn't much more they ring out of the architecture, the only improvement with the XT you could see is in the opengl area if a rewrite if the opengl drivers is really underway.

The point is that out of a survey of 1 million people, 38% are running direct x7 based hardware. It does not matter so much about the cs thing, especially since many people with great computers still play cs. Considering that maybe 100 million have computers in this country, and only approx. ~50% of those are running a dedicated graphics card (intel alone accounts for ~31% of the market running direct x6/7 integrated graphics...then add s3 and trident which split ~20%), and only approx. 28.1% are running direct x 9 series hardware. This is a survey of 1 million people.

I know it is easy to discredit this info because it's "ONLY" cs, but that is a fairly huge survey. It is going to be difficult for you to argue the validity of the survey. You do realize that most average americans don't possess a computer powerful enough to run even cs?

I play CS, and there are quite a few people in there with great graphics cards. However, what we are looking at is ~30% of the market running anything REMOTELY direct x 9 compliant (because out of those 30% the fx5200 and 5600 are the most popular cards on the market). Even when a developer targets that 30% (and they should as the market will never progress otherwise), they often choose to target the lowest common denominator of that subgroup of cards, which often means limited sm2.0 shader usage.

Now looking at this information, how could you argue that the x800 is holding back the market? We haven't even reached the SM2.0 era yet, and you're blaming them for not supporting sm3.0. We have a grand total of 3 or so games on the market that in any way utilize sm2.0. This is about 3% of the popular pc games. It's not ATI that's holding the market back, it's the consumer.

relevant links:

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2004/02/09/2003098106

http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html

[/url]

 

[Dave Baumann]

i have a question is the X800XT PE(or whatever is called) a limited edition card ,is there also going to be a regular XT version and what would be the clocks for the XT?

Effectively The XT PE is the XT for the time being. I mentioned that the term "Platinum Edition" made it sounds like a special, limited SKU, but we're assured its going to be a volume part.

 

[Rican]

i have a question is the X800XT PE(or whatever is called) a limited edition card ,is there also going to be a regular XT version and what would be the clocks for the XT?

Effectively The XT PE is the XT for the time being. I mentioned that the term "Platinum Edition" made it sounds like a special, limited SKU, but we're assured its going to be a volume part.

thanxz dave for the clarification

 

[Big Bertha EA]

38% of the dominating cards to play online games with are powered by DX6-DX7 class video cards...with NO pixel shader support at all. So when I see comments about ATI holding back technology, I just simply laugh.

There ya go...in a nutshell THIS is what is holding back the industry, not ATI nor nVidia.

um that 38% is most definately nvidia based hardware.

nVidia has NOTHING to do with my comments. What I AM talking about is how many users in the "mass market" who are STILL using DX6-DX7 hardware....THAT is the factor that is keeping developers from pushing CURRENT hardware....compatibility with outdated hardware...

 

[PARANOiA]

X800 image quality is higher than 6800, but 6800 compatiblity with most games cause less fustrations for non-geeks.

What is the basis of your frustration opinion??

Here:
ATI: http://rage3d.com/board/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=59
NVIDIA: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=26

I would suggest this has a fair bit to do with NVidia losing the last gen by a hell of a lot - so the only people with current Geforce cards - ie 5900 range cards - are NVidia biased fans. they would only get that way through having several cards over several generations.

Radeons attracted a lot of new gamers, who flocked to the best, and best value cards. These are a lot of the folk on R3D tech forums.. compare the kind of questions there as opposed to NV News.

I've certainly had far less issues with my Raddy than my old Geforce.