Why Can't Nvidia cards do..

[Ailuros]

The misconception that float HDR presupposes SM3.0 probably came from the simple fact that it's been only present in SM3.0 designs.

 

[Dave Baumann]

I think Jawed's point goes beyond that, in that you don't even need float support, merely some method of getting an acceptible higher range.

 

[Ailuros]

I think Jawed's point goes beyond that, in that you don't even need float support, merely some method of getting an acceptible higher range.

With obvious tradeoffs too though, which I personally prefer to be honest if I don't have to satisfy MSAA for those.

HDR has been IMHO a toe dipped into the water during the entire DX9.0 era, both from the hardware capability side as from the games supporting it.

 

[KimB]

Just fyi, confirmation just came in from nVidia that their next gen will indeed support HDR+AA, but not the GeForce7 architecture.

 

[martrox]

Chal....I though that was a given.

 

[Geo]

Just fyi, confirmation just came in from nVidia that their next gen will indeed support HDR+AA, but not the GeForce7 architecture.

So then, *now* we can start bashing Kirk for his previous statement?

 

[KimB]

Chal....I though that was a given.

Well, sure, I know I expected it. But it's always nice to have it confirmed

 

[Geo]

Just because I'm stubborn:

David Kirk Bit-Tech interview, July 11, 2005

"It would be expensive for us to try and do it in hardware, and it wouldn't really make sense - it doesn't make sense, going into the future, for us to keep applying AA at the hardware level. What will happen is that as games are created for HDR, AA will be done in-engine according to the specification of the developer."

"Maybe at some point, that process will be accelerated in hardware, but that's not in the immediate future."

So, utter bollocks then?

 

[Mariner]

Mostly bollocks. :smile:

In his defence, it's not the first time an IHV has pooh-poohed a feature of competing hardware despite knowing the same feature will be included in their own next-gen product.

 

[KimB]

Well, not technically. I mean, it's more than possible for software developers to support supersampling for HDR, but it's not going to be ideal, clearly (so I doubt many will do it). And of course, this is just confirmation of his last statement, that at some point it's going to be hardware-accelerated.

 

[Geo]

I think that's much too generous, Chal, unless their new solution is markedly different in the way it handles AA, moving the hardware accel for it into the PS or something like that.

 

[KimB]

I'm not quite sure what you're saying. Why have anything but multisampling? That requires hardware support....

 

[Geo]

If I try to get logic out of Kirk's statement in the light of NV50/G80 having this capability, then the two elements are "not immediately" which arguably since this was in July last and the next solution is more June this year, he might get away with that. Kinda weak in my book when you look at the entire statement, but mebbee.

But that wasn't the only part of the statment; the rest points at a substantive difference in how this new solution is arrived at, by developers "in-engine", which is then accelerated in some new fashion --in other words a pretty big break from current methods, not an evolution of the rops.

 

[KimB]

But that wasn't the only part of the statment; the rest points at a substantive difference in how this new solution is arrived at, by developers "in-engine", which is then accelerated in some new fashion --in other words a pretty big break from current methods, not an evolution of the rops.

Well, right, I don't think he thought he was talking to a crowd quite as tech-savvy as ourselves

 

[martrox]

Fact is.....it was total bullshit. Kirk has a history of trashing anything nVidia doesn't have or do well - remember Voodoo 5 FSAA - only to change the story if and when the story needs changing. Of course, that's his job..... As I have said before, if he ever decides to leave nVidia, he'd be a shoe in as a replacement for Scott McCellen..........

 

[John Reynolds]

Good to get that confirmation, at least. To borrow Dave's word, I just hope it's orthogonal so we don't see more fragmented support from developers.

 

[KimB]

I don't see why it wouldn't be. I mean, it'd be more work to support different AA modes with FP16 rendertargets than FX8 ones, wouldn't it?

 

[Farid]

Two keywords in this thread:

Confirmation: From Chalnoth. What, where, when? I mean was it publically confirmed, if it is, how in the world I do not know! Or is it stuff heard through the grapevine?

Orthogonal: From JohnReynolds. Heh heh heh, he said orthogonal...

Good to get that confirmation, at least. To borrow Dave's word, I just hope it's orthogonal so we don't see more fragmented support from developers.

If they do add MSAA support for the highest common denominator, FP16, I'd guess that 32bits formats, that are the most used anyway, are a sure bet. Unless they're completely stupid, of course.

 

[KimB]

Confirmation: From Chalnoth. What, where, when? I mean was it publically confirmed, if it is, how in the world I do not know! Or is it stuff heard through the grapevine?

This is from an e-mail sent out through AEG

 

[Ailuros]

Pardon for the tongue-in-cheek comment, but it's not like anyone couldn't have figured that D3D10 GPUs wouldn't support HDR/MSAA combinations.