Why Arabs Lose Wars

[Legion]

Ya made myself into a liar over not posting on this anymore quite a while ago. Couple of slurs really pumped me up tho... One last question legion is whats your vested interest in this? Are you a fundamentalist christian or some orthodox jew or member of a small right wing political party in Israel, or likud?

Just curious...

I am an atheistic bisexual observer. I have no vested interests in this other than to report my understanding of factual recordings of history as they tie into the reality of these situations.

 

[pax]

Hhe well said ... Im a straight, fundamentalist non denominational christian whose read on the subject for about 20 years including a trip in 1988 that lasted over a month and saw me visiting occupied and non occupied territories.

My main religious influence has been the 7th day adventists...

Itd be nice if they could get along as they managed to do in Haifa. And of course any pali state should be overseen by US\UN during its formation to insure a democratic process is well established to answer one of your previous posts... No one wants or expects another dictatorship there from what has been seen elsewhere in the ME... I think thats worrying a little too much. I would compare jordanians' standard of living favorable easily with the palis in the west bank and gazaa tho to answer another...

 

[Willmeister]

So you were there at the onset of Intifada I? Did you get to see the driver (if I recall it was a settler) who ran over six Palestinians (four died) which started it all?

 

[Legion]

Itd be nice if they could get along as they managed to do in Haifa. And of course any pali state should be overseen by US\UN during its formation to insure a democratic process is well established to answer one of your previous posts... No one wants or expects another dictatorship there from what has been seen elsewhere in the ME... I think thats worrying a little too much. I would compare jordanians' standard of living favorable easily with the palis in the west bank and gazaa tho to answer another...

However sure you or i may be i honestly hope there are UN/US forces present for a period of time until they are able to solidify assets and establish themselves.

 

[pax]

So you were there at the onset of Intifada I? Did you get to see the driver (if I recall it was a settler) who ran over six Palestinians (four died) which started it all?

I was there a year after it started. There was a large peaceful protest (just a get together with slogans chanting of about 4-5000 people) at Jaffa gate on the 1st anniversary of the start of the intifada that I witnessed. Its too bad there were no ghandiesque personnalities to move that movement and the palestinian people gain the moral standing it needed.

 

[Legion]

So you were there at the onset of Intifada I? Did you get to see the driver (if I recall it was a settler) who ran over six Palestinians (four died) which started it all?

I was there a year after it started. There was a large peaceful protest (just a get together with slogans chanting of about 4-5000 people) at Jaffa gate on the 1st anniversary of the start of the intifada that I witnessed. Its too bad there were no ghandiesque personnalities to move that movement and the palestinian people gain the moral standing it needed.

Or perhaps an intervention from Allah?

 

[Willmeister]

Its too bad there were no ghandiesque personnalities to move that movement and the palestinian people gain the moral standing it needed.

Actually, there was. His name is Mubarak Awad. He was actually one of the first the Israelis deported once the Intifada started and Awad has remained in obscurity in the USA ever since. The last thing the media will tolerate is having a Palestinian on the air who seems perfectly reasonable and preaching non-violence. The closest they'll ever have is Hannan Ashrawi, who won't totally condemn violent acts, unlike Awad who denounces it all and sees it ultimately as counterproductive. Kinda would destroy the carefully fostered image of the Palestinians as nothing but unexploded suicide bombers. During the time of original Intifada, Israel was grooming Hamas and Awad's non-confronational approach was probably deemed as ciphoning off support for it. Solution was simple: get rid of the competition so that Palestinians could choose to follow the PLO or an Israeli-supported Hamas. You can't have an 'either-or' situation with three choices can you, and Awad's statements would garner international support; so they arranged for him to be removed from the spotlight. Nothing but the bureaucracy yet again working to remove choice. Hamas is a great example of 'blowback', much better example than al-Qaeda in that respect. Israel (Labour government at that) supported it directly whereas the CIA funded Bin Laden indirectly through other organizations.

Awad's quick removal was highly successful even though international criticism was a slight irritant for the Israeli government at the time, if there was much of any at all.

http://www.peacemagazine.org/archive/awad.htm
The article is old, but you'll get some background.