Where the hell did the graphics and animation for MGS4 go?

[Shifty Geezer]

They're lying when they show trailers that are not a indication of their actual progress. The current gameplay screenshots are not lies, the bullshit "showcase" and ones in the OP are lies though.

The first footage was engine renderings, realtime. It wasn't BS because that's what the hardware was doing. The latest footage is the actual game. It's not BS because...it's the actual game.

So I don't know what the problem is. The game doesn't look as good as the tech demo - games rarely do. And yet it's a WIP. It's not like from the tech demo, the current gameplay is absolutely what the game will be like. There's plenty of scope for the game to rise to the engine's showcased abilties. It would only be a lie if the engine was a fake. It would be a 'misunderstanding' if people expect the game to look as good as the tech-demo and it doesn't in the end (when complete).

Putting it another way, is the whole PS3 a lie if all the human characters in games don't look as good as the Alfred Molina tech-demo? Like SugarCoat says, don't take offense when tech-demo's don't represent the in-game results (which they might yet do...).

 

[sunscar]

RE: Darkon

That, too, but honestly, people are bitching because ACTUAL game materials are less complex than ones from a tech demo?! This is B3D! People here know damn-full-well why that is. Like I said - You don't blow your entire budget on two characters and wall in any GAME, but you do when you're showing off what your tech can do.

 

[Nesh]

In other words its the same engine, the same capabilities, but sources are more divided. Yet people take literally the smallest change in detail, especially when the game is still away from being final.

Later trailers although didnt show gameplay of the game they werent "tech demos". It was the same engine running and sources spread on other areas like physics (remember the Gear going through the wall). They still looked unbelievable. Kojima said we should expect imporvements even then and I never ever remember him lie before. He is probably one of the very few developers who has some kind of morale when it comes to his work.

The final video and especially the latest screenshots what they actually show is an unfinished game in which most graphical effects are switched off probably to make development in gameplay implementation and testing easier.

Even if it was the case that he lied and will look worse, the latest screenshots miss even the most common effects existing even in ugly games. Considering that Kojima Productions arent the kind of developers that will leave important things behind and abandon the game like that, these screenshots are safe to assume they have nothing to do with the actual quality whatsoever that will appear in the game.

A game cant suffer such downgration in less than a month between the second-last trailer showing cut scenes of warfare (you all remember that one just before tha last) and the last trailer showing gameplay elements. They are both near the same time frame of development. They were developed together

 

[Darkon]

In other words its the same engine, the same capabilities, but sources are more divided. Yet people take literally the smallest change in detail, especially when the game is still away from being final.

Later trailers although didnt show gameplay of the game they werent "tech demos". It was the same engine running and sources spread on other areas like physics (remember the Gear going through the wall). They still looked unbelievable. Kojima said we should expect imporvements even then and I never ever remember him lie before. He is probably one of the very few developers who has some kind of morale when it comes to his work.

The final video and especially the latest screenshots what they actually show is an unfinished game in which most graphical effects are switched off probably to make development in gameplay implementation and testing easier.

Even if it was the case that he lied and will look worse, the latest screenshots miss even the most common effects existing even in ugly games. Considering that Kojima Productions arent the kind of developers that will leave important things behind and abandon the game like that, these screenshots are safe to assume they have nothing to do with the actual quality whatsoever that will appear in the game.

A game cant suffer such downgration in less than a month between the second-last trailer showing cut scenes of warfare (you all remember that one just before tha last) and the last trailer showing gameplay elements. They are both near the same time frame of development. They were developed together

Exactly mon ami

 

[Deleted member 7537]

http://www.gametrailers.com/umwatcher.php?id=905

Kojima never uses CG's, the trailer was realtime.

 

[Ben-Nice]

The game is going to look like crap. Just like the rest of the Metal Gears

 

[scooby_dooby]

RE: Darkon

That, too, but honestly, people are bitching because ACTUAL game materials are less complex than ones from a tech demo?! This is B3D! People here know damn-full-well why that is. Like I said - You don't blow your entire budget on two characters and wall in any GAME, but you do when you're showing off what your tech can do.

It sure as hell wasn't presented as a tech demo, I still remember having LONG arguments with people about whether it would look the same, with legions of Sony fans swearing that Kojima's games always looked the same as the trailers, and that the only difference would be camera angles. I was saying there's no way the game would look the same as a cinematic cutscene, many people argued against that statement...

I even remember some people going as far as saying that most games they play, don't show any difference at all between cut-scene and ingame graphics (titanio)

Now there's a big drop and I have to listen to Sony fans like you express 'outrage' because people start talking about the obvious drop in quality. Well EXCUSE us....

 

[Sankari]

The game is going to look like crap. Just like the rest of the Metal Gears

It seems like some people are seriously thinking like that, which makes your post even funnier.

 

[Dr. Nick]

It sure as hell wasn't presented as a tech demo, I still remember having LONG arguments with people about whether it would look the same, with legions of Sony fans swearing that Kojima's games always looked the same as the trailers, and that the only difference would be camera angles. I was saying there's no way the game would look the same as a cinematic cutscene, many people argued against that statement...

I even remember some people going as far as saying that most games they play, don't show any difference at all between cut-scene and ingame graphics (titanio)

Now there's a big drop and I have to listen to Sony fans like you express 'outrage' because people start talking about the obvious drop in quality. Well EXCUSE us....

I do remember reading threads about this all over the place including the B3D forums and what Scooby said is right. Many people were arguing that the trailer was exactly what the game would look like if not better. To tell you the truth after seeing it I thought it was the first honest thing shown for the PS3 platform and if you look at it there is nothing about it to make one believe that it wasn't possible graphically.

The trailer was real time in-engine but that doesn't mean that it was in-game. Animation is another thing entirely which I didn't expect to see the same quality in the actual gameplay. That being said I wouldn't be surprised if that trailer had some effect on other big name titles that have been or will be released.

 

[Skrying]

The first footage was engine renderings, realtime. It wasn't BS because that's what the hardware was doing. The latest footage is the actual game. It's not BS because...it's the actual game.

So I don't know what the problem is. The game doesn't look as good as the tech demo - games rarely do. And yet it's a WIP. It's not like from the tech demo, the current gameplay is absolutely what the game will be like. There's plenty of scope for the game to rise to the engine's showcased abilties. It would only be a lie if the engine was a fake. It would be a 'misunderstanding' if people expect the game to look as good as the tech-demo and it doesn't in the end (when complete).

Putting it another way, is the whole PS3 a lie if all the human characters in games don't look as good as the Alfred Molina tech-demo? Like SugarCoat says, don't take offense when tech-demo's don't represent the in-game results (which they might yet do...).

+1

Yet another who simply does not get my comments. I blame myself, I must be unclear.

No where did I call the "current" screenshots of actual gameplay bullshit. I called the tech demos bullshit, because they are. At the time they were shown the game at that point was no where near that, possible because there was hardly a game at that point, which brings me to my point, stop showing me bullshit. Show your actual progress, in fact its a pretty amazing concept, but think of this: Your first screenshots are not to amazing, next better, next eve better, etc, etc. All of a sudden people are like "wow, look at that real progress!" Of course it doesn't happen that way, its more like "Check out this!" *tech demo starts* "That's what you'll be playing in early 2008!", six months later they show their actual progress and its not near what they showed in the tech demo, because the tech demo was nothing at all, and that's the problem.

It all falls into place in how marketing is possibly the greatest evil...... ever.

 

[Darkon]

+1

Yet another who simply does not get my comments. I blame myself, I must be unclear.

No where did I call the "current" screenshots of actual gameplay bullshit. I called the tech demos bullshit, because they are. At the time they were shown the game at that point was no where near that, possible because there was hardly a game at that point, which brings me to my point, stop showing me bullshit. Show your actual progress, in fact its a pretty amazing concept, but think of this: Your first screenshots are not to amazing, next better, next eve better, etc, etc. All of a sudden people are like "wow, look at that real progress!" Of course it doesn't happen that way, its more like "Check out this!" *tech demo starts* "That's what you'll be playing in early 2008!", six months later they show their actual progress and its not near what they showed in the tech demo, because the tech demo was nothing at all, and that's the problem.

It all falls into place in how marketing is possibly the greatest evil...... ever.

I get your point now though those trailers weren't techdemo's and mind you kojima always did this for all metal gear solid titles , first and second trailer always where real time cutscene's from the game then the third trailer was mix between cutscenes and gameplay then after that all trailers that are released are showcasing gameplay which all looked the same as real time cutscene's (minus mgs 3 which had some blur effect ).


I get your point now though those trailers weren't techdemo's and mind you kojima always did this for all metal gear solid titles , first and second trailer always where real time cutscene's from the game then the third trailer was mix between cut scenes and game play then after that, all trailers that are released are showcasing gameplay which looked the same as real time cutscene’s (minus mgs 3 which had some blur effect ).

Now after leipzig kojima said next E3 you'll get to see gameplay footage.

But E3 got canned so he probably decided (dumb move) to showcase some gameplay @ TGS and his team most likely haven’t had enough time to implement gameplay mechanics into the latest build , hell from what I seen the trailer itself wasn’t greatly edited either.

 

[aaronspink]

I don't think it was CG, but there are a ton of people who are fooling themselves into not seeing a difference here, huge drop off imo.

Its called tech demo vs reality.

Its easy to make a tech demo look great. You have a simple scene. Nothing else going on. Can get away with a lot of techniques that don't work in action, etc.

 

[Darkon]

:/

I give up this is like almost repeat of mgs 2 days.

 

[Bobbler]

I argued that it'd likely look like the cut scene trailers and I still think it will. I've seen little reason to doubt Kojima and his team.

Anyone who thinks its just going to look like the initial gameplay movies is out of their mind -- there is a year of development from when that was shown 'til release. Once a base engine is created, a significant amount of change can happen in a year, especially when you have the resources Kojima does.

MGS games have always looked rather excellent when they came out. I don't see any reason to believe MGS4 won't be one of the most impressive games released when it comes out. It's not like what's shown in the current gameplay and what was in the trailers is _that_ different -- lighting seems to be the only major difference at this point.

A lot can happen in a year... hell, a lot can happen in 6 months going by how Motorstorm progressed.

Anyone arguing that it's going to look just like these initial gameplay vids/screens (and not like the cutscenes) is likely going to find themselves eating their feet come late '07. I'll gladly be quoted on it.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I argued that it'd likely look like the cut scene trailers and I still think it will. I've seen little reason to doubt Kojima and his team.

Anyone who thinks its just going to look like the initial gameplay movies is out of their mind -- there is a year of development from when that was shown 'til release. Once a base engine is created, a significant amount of change can happen in a year, especially when you have the resources Kojima does.

MGS games have always looked rather excellent when they came out. I don't see any reason to believe MGS4 won't be one of the most impressive games released when it comes out. It's not like what's shown in the current gameplay and what was in the trailers is _that_ different -- lighting seems to be the only major difference at this point.

A lot can happen in a year... hell, a lot can happen in 6 months going by how Motorstorm progressed.

Anyone arguing that it's going to look just like these initial gameplay vids/screens (and not like the cutscenes) is likely going to find themselves eating their feet come late '07. I'll gladly be quoted on it.

That's all very logical and I agree, it will improve, of course it will improve! But it's still funny to watch people pretend like there's no difference right now...

 

[Darkon]

That's all very logical and I agree, it will improve, of course it will improve! But it's still funny to watch people pretend like there's no difference right now...

who is pretending ? no one in this thread as far as i have seen .

 

[Fox5]

Just out of curiosity, how many people have seen a game get substantially better looking as it gets further in the development process? I can't remember too many, usually only ones that scrap their entire game engine and start over. I do remember quite a few getting graphical downgrades, removing effects or lowering the framerate for the final game.

 

[TheChefO]

Just out of curiosity, how many people have seen a game get substantially better looking as it gets further in the development process? I can't remember too many, usually only ones that scrap their entire game engine and start over. I do remember quite a few getting graphical downgrades, removing effects or lowering the framerate for the final game.

Resistance
Motorstorm
Gears of War

 

[pakotlar]

According to that shot, it took a nosedive in the graphics department. That's the only FACT that can be extracted. Anything else is just hopes, faith and conjecture.

Thank you for speaking sensibly. Everyone else here needs to take a class in logic. What we know is that Kojima showed us a trailer @ TGS 2005 that looked amazing, and not only that, but told us the game would only look better, since that was an early build and the textures were placeholders from MGS3.

Now come 2006 and people are arguing that the game is early and graphics will improve, blah blah. Honestly, I doubt it. Same was said about FN3 (nothing changed). Oh and hey, if we look at Kojima's past, we see nothing to back your arguments. MGS2 demo/tech demo looked exactly like the final game, MGS3 early vids looked exactly like the final thing. Why would Kojima release a bunch of long-ass trailers that were supposed to be the "Real Game" (as opposed to 2005's teaser trailer from very early build) and tell us that they were representative of final material, if they were really utterly different from the actual game. Wouldn't that be a great PR move? Dur

 

[sunscar]

It sure as hell wasn't presented as a tech demo, I still remember having LONG arguments with people about whether it would look the same, with legions of Sony fans swearing that Kojima's games always looked the same as the trailers, and that the only difference would be camera angles. I was saying there's no way the game would look the same as a cinematic cutscene, many people argued against that statement...

I even remember some people going as far as saying that most games they play, don't show any difference at all between cut-scene and ingame graphics (titanio)

Now there's a big drop and I have to listen to Sony fans like you express 'outrage' because people start talking about the obvious drop in quality. Well EXCUSE us....

First, It sure as hell was... Everyone knew at the time there was no game... well everyone except apparently you. The rest of your little rant doesn't do anything to say otherwise. The fact that you had talks with fanb0ts doesn't have any bearing.

Second, I'm not a SONY fan, so shove that in your ass. I own a total of "no" SONY products. I'm a geek, and a techno-elitist. The reaction I had is not due to fandom, it's due to the fact that whiny, bitchy, childish little tirades like the one you're off on don't belong here, and sully the image of this place.

Third, there is not a big drop. There is a drop, and I never said otherwise (don't know where you gathered that I did). The rendering technology is the same, and the hardware is basically identicle, but in an actual gaming scenario you have more to deal with than two characters and a wall, so things get spread out. In a rendering engine demo, you don't have that issue.