What should the GBA2 be?

[Farid]

By early 2007 we could potentially see 4GB 3DM cards costing less than $5 on a per unit basis... traditional silicon ROM standards don't really apply here.

Moore law never really directed ROM/RAM market (at least not like it's doing with other semiconductors), economically speaking, of course.
Except if Nintendo has an extremely good partnership or, better, invest in the technology, i don't see this scenario happening, and at least if this scenario is even "possible", then color me skeptical about the 4GB for $5.

Any comparsion to N64/PS1 is flat out off base here. In 1996 publishers could expect to pay $1 for a 650MB PS CD versus $18-25 for an 8MB N64 cart. In 2007, it might be $1 for 1.8GB PSP UMD versus $2-5 for a 4GB GBnext card... not quite the same thing.

Flat-out off base is maybe strechting it, don't you think? $3-5 difference is almost the exact difference between Nintendo's fees and Sony's at the GC launch...

As i said, Nintendo next turn will have to deal with an instaled PSP base from day one (Just like PSone vs N64 scenario).
I just stated that it would be wise from Nintendo to put all chances on their side.

BTW, welcome to the boards.

 

[GwymWeepa]

Quick someone explain those matrix rom things in detail or give me a good link to a detailed explanation!

 

[Farid]

Quick someone explain those matrix rom things in detail or give me a good link to a detailed explanation!

http://www.matrixsemi.com/technology/index.html

 

[jarrod]

By early 2007 we could potentially see 4GB 3DM cards costing less than $5 on a per unit basis... traditional silicon ROM standards don't really apply here.

Moore law never really directed ROM/RAM market (at least not like it's doing with semiconductors), economically speaking, of course.

From my understanding, Moore's Law applies directly to density per wafer which makes it applicable to ROM/RAM also. Matrix actually mentions 3DM accelerating/extending Moore's Law on their website.

Except if Nintendo has an extremely good partnership or, better, invest in the technology, i don't see this scenario happening, or at least if possible, color me skeptical.

Nintendo's already invested some $20M actually and will be using 3DM for their new DS handheld. They're among Matrix Semiconductor's largest investors (along with Kodak, Microsoft, Seagate, Thompson & Sony).

Any comparsion to N64/PS1 is flat out off base here. In 1996 publishers could expect to pay $1 for a 650MB PS CD versus $18-25 for an 8MB N64 cart. In 2007, it might be $1 for 1.8GB PSP UMD versus $2-5 for a 4GB GBnext card... not quite the same thing.

Flat-out off base is maybe strechting it, don't you think? $3-5 difference is almost the exact difference between Nintendo's fees and Sony's at the GC launch...

But not N64/PS1... which is the the comparison I was referring to. The media comparsion is nothing alike.

As i said, Nintendo next turn will have to deal with an instaled PSP base from day one (Just like PSone vs N64 scenario).
I just stated that it would be wise from Nintendo to put all chances on their side.

Sure, but I don't really see much in terms of N64/PS1 parallels beyond that. It was Nintendo's draconian 3rd party policies and spiraling media costs that drove developers away, neither of those would really apply here. The Game Boy brand is no slouch either, if Nintendo can get a PSP spec comparable GB ready for a $99 2007 launch, I think things would go fine. They still have Pokemon after all.

BTW, welcome to the boards.

Thanks.

Quick someone explain those matrix rom things in detail or give me a good link to a detailed explanation!

Matrix goes into some detail on their website. Just dig around.

http://www.matrixsemi.com/index.html

 

[GwymWeepa]

Now, this is only applicable to ROMs right? Can CPU's one day make use of this technology?

 

[GwymWeepa]

Btw here's a question, does the GBA2 really need to be as powerful or more powerful than the PSP? Or can Nintendo simply make a handheld somewhat more powerful than the NDS, though less so than the PSP, and rely on low price point to sell?

 

[jarrod]

Btw here's a question, does the GBA2 really need to be as powerful or more powerful than the PSP? Or can Nintendo simply make a handheld somewhat more powerful than the NDS, though less so than the PSP, and rely on low price point to sell?

Why not more powerful? DS buys them a little time, PSP won't exactly be cutting edge in 2007... they could probably match PSP if they went cheap, or could intoduce a "premuim" GameBoy that blows it away.

 

[GwymWeepa]

Btw here's a question, does the GBA2 really need to be as powerful or more powerful than the PSP? Or can Nintendo simply make a handheld somewhat more powerful than the NDS, though less so than the PSP, and rely on low price point to sell?

Why not more powerful? DS buys them a little time, PSP won't exactly be cutting edge in 2007... they could probably match PSP if they went cheap, or could intoduce a "premuim" GameBoy that blows it away.

Well, that's assuming it came out in '07, though even by that time, I just can't imagine Nintendo going way more powerful than the NDS, though they could always surprise me.

 

[jarrod]

Btw here's a question, does the GBA2 really need to be as powerful or more powerful than the PSP? Or can Nintendo simply make a handheld somewhat more powerful than the NDS, though less so than the PSP, and rely on low price point to sell?

Why not more powerful? DS buys them a little time, PSP won't exactly be cutting edge in 2007... they could probably match PSP if they went cheap, or could intoduce a "premuim" GameBoy that blows it away.

Well, that's assuming it came out in '07, though even by that time, I just can't imagine Nintendo going way more powerful than the NDS, though they could always surprise me.

2007 is three years away... you really don't think Nintendo could have a chipset significantly more capable than DS by then? Hell they could probably go with a cheap ARM/ATi solution that could blow away PSP, much less DS.

Also, a 3 year timespan would be in line with Nintendo's previous handheld formats... it was 3 years from GBC to GBA and now it's been another 3 years until DS. I could see the next Game Boy coming sooner possibly, but DS seems solid enough for the time being.

 

[Rodéric]

PowerVR MBX + ARM in GBA2, that would rock

 

[GwymWeepa]

Btw here's a question, does the GBA2 really need to be as powerful or more powerful than the PSP? Or can Nintendo simply make a handheld somewhat more powerful than the NDS, though less so than the PSP, and rely on low price point to sell?

Why not more powerful? DS buys them a little time, PSP won't exactly be cutting edge in 2007... they could probably match PSP if they went cheap, or could intoduce a "premuim" GameBoy that blows it away.

Well, that's assuming it came out in '07, though even by that time, I just can't imagine Nintendo going way more powerful than the NDS, though they could always surprise me.

2007 is three years away... you really don't think Nintendo could have a chipset significantly more capable than DS by then? Hell they could probably go with a cheap ARM/ATi solution that could blow away PSP, much less DS.

Also, a 3 year timespan would be in line with Nintendo's previous handheld formats... it was 3 years from GBC to GBA and now it's been another 3 years until DS. I could see the next Game Boy coming sooner possibly, but DS seems solid enough for the time being.

lol, I'm reluctant to give Nintendo any credit, but yeah by '07 they can have something more powerful than DS...more powerful than PSP? Perhaps, but something to blow it away? Now that I doubt. They are too keen to save a buck IMO.

 

[PC-Engine]

By the time GBA2 launches, PSP tech would be dirt cheap mabye around $100 total. In other words Nintendo would be able to release a PSP equivalent at that cheap price. I would be shocked if GBA2 wasn't as powerful as PSP considering the above. However I expect Nintendo to release GBA2 at the same price as NDS ($150) and make it more powerful than PSP.

 

[Lazy8s]

Nintendo is not without choices for competitive technologies, even planning now for a launch. The SH3707 system on a chip comes from technology lines with lower power consumptions, smaller die sizes, and lesser heat generations while rating 2.1 GFLOPS and 540 MIPS. Presumably, with rendering quality at full 32-bit precision for depth and color operations, it favorably draws around four million polygons and 750 MPixels (effective at about 2.5x average overdraw possibly) per second for typical game performance. It supports very high resolutions, presumably some FSAA at no penalty and fractional LOD curved surface acceleration with no cracks in its implementation.

 

[Megadrive1988]

by 2007 I would expect Nintendo to be able to come out with a nextgen GameBoy that is comparable to or perhaps somewhat or slightly more powerful than, the PSP, at a lower cost.

 

[Evil_Cloud]

I think the most important thing is that the GBA2 can be used to it's maximum, without really affecting the battery life (as in, still possible to play a few hours, even if the hardware is pushed to it's maximum).

I could imagine GBA2 being almost as powerfull as GameCube.

 

[mkillio]

A very,very,very powerful 1 screened 2D handheld. Hi-Resolution, at least 640x480. No "real" 3D games.

 

[GwymWeepa]

A very,very,very powerful 1 screened 2D handheld. Hi-Resolution, at least 640x480. No "real" 3D games.

They could call it the Gameboy Failure, or GBF.

 

[cthellis42]

A very,very,very powerful 1 screened 2D handheld. Hi-Resolution, at least 640x480. No "real" 3D games.

They could call it the Gameboy Failure, or GBF.

<laughs> It's kind of you to have made an acronym for it already!

But yes, that would indeed be laughable. We've passing the age of 2D by completely now--there ain't no goin' back.

 

[jarrod]

Btw here's a question, does the GBA2 really need to be as powerful or more powerful than the PSP? Or can Nintendo simply make a handheld somewhat more powerful than the NDS, though less so than the PSP, and rely on low price point to sell?

Why not more powerful? DS buys them a little time, PSP won't exactly be cutting edge in 2007... they could probably match PSP if they went cheap, or could intoduce a "premuim" GameBoy that blows it away.

Well, that's assuming it came out in '07, though even by that time, I just can't imagine Nintendo going way more powerful than the NDS, though they could always surprise me.

2007 is three years away... you really don't think Nintendo could have a chipset significantly more capable than DS by then? Hell they could probably go with a cheap ARM/ATi solution that could blow away PSP, much less DS.

Also, a 3 year timespan would be in line with Nintendo's previous handheld formats... it was 3 years from GBC to GBA and now it's been another 3 years until DS. I could see the next Game Boy coming sooner possibly, but DS seems solid enough for the time being.

lol, I'm reluctant to give Nintendo any credit, but yeah by '07 they can have something more powerful than DS...more powerful than PSP? Perhaps, but something to blow it away? Now that I doubt. They are too keen to save a buck IMO.

Well, GameCube was only some 8-10 months behind PS2 in terms of technology, was $100 cheaper, with a much friendlier/balanced architecture and yet outperformed it generally. But sure, go ahead and underestimate Nintendo...

 

[Phil]

Why go as far as the console market to judge Nintendo's capability? Just look at their Gameboy history. Surely it should be clear that a portable handheld with battery, size and tight price restriction is a little more challenging than a console?

I'm not saying that the PSP is the end of be all handhelds and that Nintendo won't be able to 'blow' it away in 3 years time - in fact, I more or less question Nintendo themselves if they would even want to [compete directly with PSP]!

A more demanding system would automatically raise the costs and limit the profits on a handheld device. If we disregard the content and just keep the discussion on technical capabilities, a GBA2 that would blow away PSP would cost more to manufacture and would probably have to be sold at a small loss (as is PSP is expected to be doing). A more expensive handheld by Nintendo however would be a contradiction to the market they're selling to (target audience are younger buyers).

The more relevant question in my view as a result is, will Nintendo decide to compete directly with PSP on a design, content and technical level or will they decide to target their core handheld market as today. If the answer is the latter, it remains questionable if they would want to significantly surpass PSP's technical performance in favour of a higher price (or no profits on units sold) making it harder for their younger audience to get one.