What do you see the next gen consoles doing Graphicly?

london-boy said:
nah i could never be jealous of u..... well actually i could, of one thing in particular, that u must have been a pretty loaded kid, owning pretty much every single system there is...... :LOL:

I got some money... not crazy rich. Basicly most of the systems , the older ones my father bought me from kaybees and childsworld before they stoped selling them when they were dirt cheap. He actually bought the intelivison the day i was born :) . You haven't see my gf though ... you'd be jealous and she is loaded. I have my 42 inch plasma tv as a 21st birthday gift from her ...
 
jvd said:
london-boy said:
nah i could never be jealous of u..... well actually i could, of one thing in particular, that u must have been a pretty loaded kid, owning pretty much every single system there is...... :LOL:

I got some money... not crazy rich. Basicly most of the systems , the older ones my father bought me from kaybees and childsworld before they stoped selling them when they were dirt cheap. He actually bought the intelivison the day i was born :) . You haven't see my gf though ... you'd be jealous and she is loaded. I have my 42 inch plasma tv as a 21st birthday gift from her ...



F**KING HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
On the note of mgs2. The way it was done on the ps2 will not let it be done on the dreamcast or even the xbox for example. If you code to the systems strengths (like mgs2 was done ) And targeted at the dreamcast you would get a game that looks just like mgs2 with all its game play and most of its effects and then some effects that weren't in the ps2 version i.e bumpmaping .

No. If MGS2 was coded to the DC's strengths, you'd probably have a major decrease in geometry and effects. On the other hand, textures would probably improve because of bump mapping. Then of course image-quality, but I doubt that could be improved much. In other words, you'd have a game that would look completely different.

As good as Shenmue may look, don't you at least realise how it runs on it? Sub 30fps, chocks here and there, pop ups etc. At least MGS2 maintains double and constant framerate throughout the game. I seriously am boggled as to why you seriously believe DC could handle it. Once they start cutting down things in favour of performance, it just wouldn't look the same anymore. It'd be a different game - a different experience. There's simply no comparasment.

Bump mapping and in average better image-quality is hardly a subsitute for the lack of geometry and fillrate that the PS2 can push.
 
Phil said:
On the note of mgs2. The way it was done on the ps2 will not let it be done on the dreamcast or even the xbox for example. If you code to the systems strengths (like mgs2 was done ) And targeted at the dreamcast you would get a game that looks just like mgs2 with all its game play and most of its effects and then some effects that weren't in the ps2 version i.e bumpmaping .

No. If MGS2 was coded to the DC's strengths, you'd probably have a major decrease in geometry and effects. On the other hand, textures would probably improve because of bump mapping. Then of course image-quality, but I doubt that could be improved much. In other words, you'd have a game that would look completely different.

As good as Shenmue may look, don't you at least realise how it runs on it? Sub 30fps, chocks here and there, pop ups etc. At least MGS2 maintains double and constant framerate throughout the game. I seriously am boggled as to why you seriously believe DC could handle it. Once they start cutting down things in favour of performance, it just wouldn't look the same anymore. It'd be a different game - a different experience. There's simply no comparasment.

Bump mapping and in average better image-quality is hardly a subsitute for the lack of geometry and fillrate that the can push.



even then, there would be NO bump mapping, yes DC supported it in hardware, but show me one game that used it :rolleyes:
 
Phil said:
On the note of mgs2. The way it was done on the ps2 will not let it be done on the dreamcast or even the xbox for example. If you code to the systems strengths (like mgs2 was done ) And targeted at the dreamcast you would get a game that looks just like mgs2 with all its game play and most of its effects and then some effects that weren't in the ps2 version i.e bumpmaping .

No. If MGS2 was coded to the DC's strengths, you'd probably have a major decrease in geometry and effects. On the other hand, textures would probably improve because of bump mapping. Then of course image-quality, but I doubt that could be improved much. In other words, you'd have a game that would look completely different.

As good as Shenmue may look, don't you at least realise how it runs on it? Sub 30fps, chocks here and there, pop ups etc. At least MGS2 maintains double and constant framerate throughout the game. I seriously am boggled as to why you seriously believe DC could handle it. Once they start cutting down things in favour of performance, it just wouldn't look the same anymore. It'd be a different game - a different experience. There's simply no comparasment.

Bump mapping and in average better image-quality is hardly a subsitute for the lack of geometry and fillrate that the PS2 can push.

you'd be adding things too as youtook more out . also the engine for shemue was all but done on the saturn.
 
london-boy said:
Phil said:
On the note of mgs2. The way it was done on the ps2 will not let it be done on the dreamcast or even the xbox for example. If you code to the systems strengths (like mgs2 was done ) And targeted at the dreamcast you would get a game that looks just like mgs2 with all its game play and most of its effects and then some effects that weren't in the ps2 version i.e bumpmaping .

No. If MGS2 was coded to the DC's strengths, you'd probably have a major decrease in geometry and effects. On the other hand, textures would probably improve because of bump mapping. Then of course image-quality, but I doubt that could be improved much. In other words, you'd have a game that would look completely different.

As good as Shenmue may look, don't you at least realise how it runs on it? Sub 30fps, chocks here and there, pop ups etc. At least MGS2 maintains double and constant framerate throughout the game. I seriously am boggled as to why you seriously believe DC could handle it. Once they start cutting down things in favour of performance, it just wouldn't look the same anymore. It'd be a different game - a different experience. There's simply no comparasment.

Bump mapping and in average better image-quality is hardly a subsitute for the lack of geometry and fillrate that the can push.



even then, there would be NO bump mapping, yes DC supported it in hardware, but show me one game that used it :rolleyes:

I can't , but if you see simon's post in the ps2 the king of bump mapping thread , he says thatthe dreamcst is able todo it and was upset that it wasn't used more. So perhaps it wasn't used do to the early death ?
 
you'd be adding things too as youtook more out .

Of course, I'm not disagreeing with that in anyway - but lets be honest here, how would MGS look if you took out geometry and effects which are obviously used to the PS2's distinct fillrate advantages? It simply wouldn't be Metal Gear Solid anymore. Sure, it might look good and respectable, but how do you compare something that would look so different?

As I said, the effects that DC does better than PS2 are no subsitute for the effects being used that obviously made MGS2 the impressive game that it is.

also the engine for shemue was all but done on the saturn.

Come on now, do you seriously believe that AM2 just ported their saturn engine? :rolleyes: How long was the game in development? over 3 years? You can't tell me that AM2 had no idea about DC hardware and that they didn't optimize it.
 
Phil said:
you'd be adding things too as youtook more out .

Of course, I'm not disagreeing with that in anyway - but lets be honest here, how would MGS look if you took out geometry and effects which are obviously used to the PS2's distinct fillrate advantages? It simply wouldn't be Metal Gear Solid anymore. Sure, it might look good and respectable, but how do you compare something that would look so different?

As I said, the effects that DC does better than PS2 are no subsitute for the effects being used that obviously made MGS2 the impressive game that it is.

also the engine for shemue was all but done on the saturn.

Come on now, do you seriously believe that AM2 just ported their saturn engine? :rolleyes: How long was the game in development? over 3 years? You can't tell me that AM2 had no idea about DC hardware and that they didn't optimize it.

never said that but you can only optimize so much.

Yes the ps2 has a fillrate increase. But remember mgs2 was released in the launch year of the ps2. I'm sure it was not using all te ps2s power. Not only that we have no clue how many polygonsthe game is actually pushing. Test drive lemans onthe dcast pushings almsot 5 million polygons persecond with all its effects on . No slouch there. Also the dreamcast only draws the polygons it needs and fill them in which woud take up even less fillrate
 
Yes the ps2 has a fillrate increase. But remember mgs2 was released in the launch year of the ps2. I'm sure it was not using all te ps2s power. Not only that we have no clue how many polygonsthe game is actually pushing.

It probably was using most of its power, the relevant question though is, how efficiantly. Still, I have no doubt that the fillrate intense effects on MGS2 uses way more of the available fillrate than the DC could ever hope to reach. Basically, any software on DC can be used as an indication that this assumption is correct.

Test drive lemans onthe dcast pushings almsot 5 million polygons persecond with all its effects on . No slouch there. Also the dreamcast only draws the polygons it needs and fill them in which woud take up even less fillrate

All but bump mapping. :p
 
Phil said:
Yes the ps2 has a fillrate increase. But remember mgs2 was released in the launch year of the ps2. I'm sure it was not using all te ps2s power. Not only that we have no clue how many polygonsthe game is actually pushing.

It probably was using most of its power, the relevant question though is, how efficiantly. Still, I have no doubt that the fillrate intense effects on MGS2 uses way more of the available fillrate than the DC could ever hope to reach. Basically, any software on DC can be used as an indication that this assumption is correct.

Test drive lemans onthe dcast pushings almsot 5 million polygons persecond with all its effects on . No slouch there. Also the dreamcast only draws the polygons it needs and fill them in which woud take up even less fillrate

All but bump mapping. :p

It was said in the ps2 bumpmaping thread that it takes 2 passes on the dreamcast. I'm waiting for simon to chime in though. It was also said that it wasn't used at the time do to the unfimilarty of the algorithim . Also you assume that all the fillrate intesnive effects on the ps2 would take fillrate on the dreamcast. Some of the effects could have been done in hardware on the dreamcast. Or replaced by ways of doing it with hardware effects . I'm not a dc or a ps2 developer so i can't sit and whip up code for you. It be interesting to learn from someone who has a ton of experiance on both
 
It was said in the ps2 bumpmaping thread that it takes 2 passes on the dreamcast.
Yeah, that is true. But it's also true PS2 can do it in four passes, and considering it's much higher fillrate it would end up doing more BM'ed polygons, theoretically. Yet, noone is using it in game on either of them, so we can specualte all day long
 
marconelly! said:
It was said in the ps2 bumpmaping thread that it takes 2 passes on the dreamcast.
Yeah, that is true. But it's also true PS2 can do it in four passes, and considering it's much higher fillrate it would end up doing more BM'ed polygons, theoretically. Yet, noone is using it in game on either of them, so we can specualte all day long


EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS.... PS2 has such a performance headstart that the end result would be better performance than dreamcast anyway, even though the latter supports it in hardware..... clever boy :LOL:
 
EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS.... PS2 has such a performance headstart that the end result would be better performance than dreamcast anyway, even though the latter supports it in hardware..... clever boy

No, no, no... The Xbox is best. It even cure´s HIV and Ebola virus..
Just ask, well you know who.. :D
 
overclocked said:
EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS.... PS2 has such a performance headstart that the end result would be better performance than dreamcast anyway, even though the latter supports it in hardware..... clever boy

No, no, no... The Xbox is best. It even cure´s HIV and Ebola virus..
Just ask, well you know who.. :D

:LOL:
poor little chap.... being bullied like this... for no reason... :LOL: :LOL:
 
what exactly is a 100x jump from the psone ? or is it marketing speak like when nvidia says it will have the fastest gpu when the fx launched and mhz wise it did and yet the radeon 9700 pro beat it out in almost all the tests .

100x geometry jump, accompanied by a 10+x jumps in physics, by 2x+ in framerate and resolution, and tons of additional effects, and image quality enhancements, all at the same time...

That'd be like a gpu being capable of throwing out all it's predecessor could 100fold accompanied by better IQ, effects.
 
london-boy said:
overclocked said:
EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS.... PS2 has such a performance headstart that the end result would be better performance than dreamcast anyway, even though the latter supports it in hardware..... clever boy

No, no, no... The Xbox is best. It even cure´s HIV and Ebola virus..
Just ask, well you know who.. :D

:LOL:
poor little chap.... being bullied like this... for no reason... :LOL: :LOL:

well the best is this slurpee straw that i can actually eat when i'm done drinking the slurpee from it. I'm possing a question. One which i think is very valid . Basicly if the mgs2 game was made on from the ground up on the dreamcast if it would look basicly the same (some aspects worse, some aspects better) than the ps2. The only person who can really answer that is a developer with experiance on both systems i guess. I never said dreamcast can do every game on the ps2. I know it can't. I believe mgs2 is one of the games it can do. Xbox is running a crappy port of the game which even runs crappy on the ps2 and pc.
 
london-boy said:
i guess thats about right....

dude i'm telling u this is the best thin ever... my gf just brought me one... the straw is so goood.... i almost just want the straws to eat as snacks haha
 
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