Valve is a liar. Cheating on Halflife2

[engall]

-

Valve is pissed at all of the benchmarking "optimizations" they've seen in the hardware community;
- Half-Life 2 has a special NV3x codepath that was necessary to make NVIDIA's architecture perform reasonably under the game;
- Valve recommends running geforce fx 5200 and 5600 cards in dx8 mode in order to get playable frame rates.
- even with the special NV3x codepath, ATI is the clear performance leader under Half-Life 2 with the Radeon 9800 Pro hitting around 60 fps at 10x7. The 5900 ultra is noticeably slower with the special codepath and is horrendously slower under the default dx9 codepath;
- the Radeon 9600 Pro performs very well - it is a good competitor of the 5900 ultra;
- ATI didn't need these special optimizations to perform well and Valve insists that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor.
There you have it folks, there's much more coming tomorrow.

Optimization Investment
- 5X as much time optimizing NV3X path as we’ve spent optimizing generic DX9 path- Our customers have a lot of NVIDIA hardware
- We were surprised by the discrepancy
- ATI hardware didn’t need it

Thats the discrepancy.

Firstly, they say that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor.
but secondly,they say that 5X as much time optimizing NV3X path as we’ve spent optimizing generic DX9 path.
What about that?
They cheated us like a geek. Goddamn it.

 

[Tim]

Re: Valve is a lier. Cheating on Halflife2

Firstly, they say that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor.
but secondly,they say that 5X as much time optimizing NV3X path as we’ve spent optimizing generic DX9 path.
What about that?
They cheated us like a geek. Goddamn it.

They did not optimize the standard DX9 codepath for any vendor, they did however optimize the special mixed-precision NV3x codepath it that really so hard to understand?

 

[digitalwanderer]

Re: Valve is a lier. Cheating on Halflife2

-

Valve is pissed at all of the benchmarking "optimizations" they've seen in the hardware community;
- Half-Life 2 has a special NV3x codepath that was necessary to make NVIDIA's architecture perform reasonably under the game;
- Valve recommends running geforce fx 5200 and 5600 cards in dx8 mode in order to get playable frame rates.
- even with the special NV3x codepath, ATI is the clear performance leader under Half-Life 2 with the Radeon 9800 Pro hitting around 60 fps at 10x7. The 5900 ultra is noticeably slower with the special codepath and is horrendously slower under the default dx9 codepath;
- the Radeon 9600 Pro performs very well - it is a good competitor of the 5900 ultra;
- ATI didn't need these special optimizations to perform well and Valve insists that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor.
There you have it folks, there's much more coming tomorrow.

Optimization Investment
- 5X as much time optimizing NV3X path as we’ve spent optimizing generic DX9 path- Our customers have a lot of NVIDIA hardware
- We were surprised by the discrepancy
- ATI hardware didn’t need it

Thats the discrepancy.

Firstly, they say that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor.
but secondly,they say that 5X as much time optimizing NV3X path as we’ve spent optimizing generic DX9 path.
What about that?
They cheated us like a geek. Goddamn it.

Please tell me you're joking, you simply must be. They didn't optimize the DX9 path for any vendor, they made the nV path exclusively for nVidia.

They didn't lie, the set the truth free as far as I'm concerned. 8)

 

[engall]

Re: Valve is a lier. Cheating on Halflife2

-

Valve is pissed at all of the benchmarking "optimizations" they've seen in the hardware community;
- Half-Life 2 has a special NV3x codepath that was necessary to make NVIDIA's architecture perform reasonably under the game;
- Valve recommends running geforce fx 5200 and 5600 cards in dx8 mode in order to get playable frame rates.
- even with the special NV3x codepath, ATI is the clear performance leader under Half-Life 2 with the Radeon 9800 Pro hitting around 60 fps at 10x7. The 5900 ultra is noticeably slower with the special codepath and is horrendously slower under the default dx9 codepath;
- the Radeon 9600 Pro performs very well - it is a good competitor of the 5900 ultra;
- ATI didn't need these special optimizations to perform well and Valve insists that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor.
There you have it folks, there's much more coming tomorrow.

Optimization Investment
- 5X as much time optimizing NV3X path as we’ve spent optimizing generic DX9 path- Our customers have a lot of NVIDIA hardware
- We were surprised by the discrepancy
- ATI hardware didn’t need it

Thats the discrepancy.

Firstly, they say that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor.
but secondly,they say that 5X as much time optimizing NV3X path as we’ve spent optimizing generic DX9 path.
What about that?
They cheated us like a geek. Goddamn it.

Please tell me you're joking, you simply must be. They didn't optimize the DX9 path for any vendor, they made the nV path exclusively for nVidia.

They didn't lie, the set the truth free as far as I'm concerned. 8)

Are you joking? They insist that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor instead of Dx9path for any vendor.they made the nV path exclusively for nVidia. Thats right,baby.
They have optimized the game specifically for Nvidia.
Thats the truth.

 

[KnightBreed]

That sounds like either a misquote or misunderstanding. I think VALVe meant, "Valve insists that they have not optimized the game in any vendor's favor." Meaning the NV3x line needed the extra optimization to bring it in line with the R3x0 series, but no single vendor received any unfair optimization(s) to trump other vendors.

 

[T2k]

Re: Valve is a lier. Cheating on Halflife2

-

Valve is pissed at all of the benchmarking "optimizations" they've seen in the hardware community;
- Half-Life 2 has a special NV3x codepath that was necessary to make NVIDIA's architecture perform reasonably under the game;
- Valve recommends running geforce fx 5200 and 5600 cards in dx8 mode in order to get playable frame rates.
- even with the special NV3x codepath, ATI is the clear performance leader under Half-Life 2 with the Radeon 9800 Pro hitting around 60 fps at 10x7. The 5900 ultra is noticeably slower with the special codepath and is horrendously slower under the default dx9 codepath;
- the Radeon 9600 Pro performs very well - it is a good competitor of the 5900 ultra;
- ATI didn't need these special optimizations to perform well and Valve insists that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor.
There you have it folks, there's much more coming tomorrow.

Optimization Investment
- 5X as much time optimizing NV3X path as we?ve spent optimizing generic DX9 path- Our customers have a lot of NVIDIA hardware
- We were surprised by the discrepancy
- ATI hardware didn?t need it

Thats the discrepancy.

Firstly, they say that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor.
but secondly,they say that 5X as much time optimizing NV3X path as we?ve spent optimizing generic DX9 path.
What about that?
They cheated us like a geek. Goddamn it.

Please tell me you're joking, you simply must be. They didn't optimize the DX9 path for any vendor, they made the nV path exclusively for nVidia.

They didn't lie, the set the truth free as far as I'm concerned. 8)

Are you joking? They insist that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor instead of Dx9path for any vendor.they made the nV path exclusively for nVidia. Thats right,baby.
They have optimized the game specifically for Nvidia.
Thats the truth.

You should go to a doctor with your starting mental illness if you're serious on this...

 

[Dave H]

On the off chance that you truly don't understand what Gabe, as interpreted by Anand, meant...

Valve did not optimize the full DX9 path for any vendor; it is coded and optimized to match a generic DX9 profile. Obvously the "mixed" DX9 path is optimized for NV3x, although it doesn't seem to do too much good for anything but the high-bandwidth NV35 (and indeed I'd bet if NV30 scores were included they would decrease significantly in "mixed" mode).

 

[WaltC]

Re: Valve is a lier. Cheating on Halflife2

You should go to a doctor with your starting mental illness if you're serious on this...

Although anyone can make a typo, and I've done plenty of them, I still hate to see it spelled "lier" when it's "liar"...

Yes, on the eve of its launch of HL2, Valve stands up and tells lies about its software to "get" nVidia as ATi stuffs cash into Valve's back pocket....uh-huh...yep...alrighty...sure thing....'Kay.....Rii-i-i-i-i-ight.

 

[martrox]

The first thing, on the road to recovery, is to admit you have a problem.....

And I'm not talking about the ability to use a spelling checker.....

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Re: Valve is a lier. Cheating on Halflife2

Are you joking? They insist that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor instead of Dx9path for any vendor.they made the nV path exclusively for nVidia. Thats right,baby.
They have optimized the game specifically for Nvidia.
Thats the truth.

And still the game only runs half as fast and in lower precision on NV3x. Valve are saying they spent five times as many hours "optimising" for NV3x, and it's *still* half the speed of standard DX9 code on R3x0. I think that's far worse, and Valve might as well come out and say that NV3x is just badly, badly broken for what Nvidia claim it can do.

 

[gokickrocks]

Re: Valve is a lier. Cheating on Halflife2

blah, just ignore this

 

[rwolf]

LOL, what a dump thread.

You should know that all games that work well on Nvidia hardware will have to be custom coded with an NV3X path.

What Value has created is a 3D engine for games so it has to run well on all hardware.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Hmmm...the best I can figure is that this thread was an attempt to make an ironic or sarcastic point....unfortunately the execution of which failed miserably.

 

[Nappe1]

Joe: could be, or then this guy is so huge ATI fanatic that crushing nvidia like Valve did isn't enough for him. He wanted to show that "though the game was nvidia optimized, ATI was still this faster. How much faster it would have been if Valve would have been optimizing code path for ATi and running nvidia on generic Dx9 codepath."

or then this is just a wannabe all-known-starting-guru's first attempt to get some name. Of course you have to start somewhere, (heck, 2.5 years ago no one knew me, nor I knew nothing. (well, I don't know much today, but I am surely known at least in bad, maybe even in some good )) but I don't think this being very successful try on that frontier either.

 

[THe_KELRaTH]

Re: Valve is a lier. Cheating on Halflife2

You should go to a doctor with your starting mental illness if you're serious on this...

Although anyone can make a typo, and I've done plenty of them, I still hate to see it spelled "lier" when it's "liar"...
:

I thought it was a discussion about quadrants but in Dutch :?

 

[g__day]

This tread started showing a interesting mis-statement that required a simple clarification.

Its not bigger than Ben Hur or worth getting excited about, lets just chill.

 

[engall]

Firstly, they say that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor.
but secondly,they say that 5X as much time optimizing NV3X path as we’ve spent optimizing generic DX9 path.
What about that?
They cheated us like a geek. Goddamn it.

first, look up the word "generic" in the dictionary

second, look up the word "specific"

then go back and read your initial post again...

now please stop the FUD

Generic Dx9path is Ok.
But what about NV3X path?they made the nV path exclusively for nVidia.
They optimized specific mixed-precision NV3x codepath for nVidia Because of the poor performance of NV35 under DX9 path. I dont care how much FX series gain compare with Dx9 path.The fact is that only NV3x can run NV3x path.Misunderstanding?Maybe,
please show me.Tell me what the hells going on here!

 

[engall]

That sounds like either a misquote or misunderstanding. I think VALVe meant, "Valve insists that they have not optimized the game in any vendor's favor." Meaning the NV3x line needed the extra optimization to bring it in line with the R3x0 series, but no single vendor received any unfair optimization(s) to trump other vendors.

They say that

Valve insists that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor.

mixed Nv3x path


Uses partial-precision registers where appropriate
• Trades off texture fetches for pixel shader instruction count
• Case-by-case shader code restructuring



Do you think NV3xpath is not unfair optimization(s)?

 

[gokickrocks]

actually, its my fault (geez, this week aint my week)...i overlooked what you were saying, for some reason i thought you were referring to valve optimizing for ati...

i think im getting old

but anyways, back on topic...i agree that valve contradicted themself, but from a business standpoint, you dont really want to leave out most of the customers

 

[engall]

Hey, guys.
I dont care the performance of FX and R3x0.
I care about the fact.
How do you explain?