Unreal Tournament III Discussion *renamed*

[djskribbles]

its probably taken from a cutscene so it could be either.

the PC version could probably potentially look better than the PS3 version, but reports thus far say both versions look identical.

 

[_phil_]

warning : oversampling alert.again every one fall.casualties : 98 %

 

[archangelmorph]

its probably taken from a cutscene so it could be either.

the PC version could probably potentially look better than the PS3 version, but reports thus far say both versions look identical.

I'm sorry but i find it hard to believe..

Especially since Phil Harrison only announced a few days ago that Sony are pledging to aid Epic in Optimizing UE 3.0 for PS3..

Does that screen look like a game that needs optimising to you?

 

[rekator]

Nope, taken from the PS3 version.

Sorry, where your source? Not in the link you indicated…

 

[dabomb665m]

I'm sorry but i find it hard to believe..

Especially since Phil Harrison only announced a few days ago that Sony are pledging to aid Epic in Optimizing UE 3.0 for PS3..

Does that screen look like a game that needs optimising to you?

Uhh buddy... that's a still image. That could be running at 5fps, so what is the basis of your judgement? The IQ?

Also, They are pledging to optimize UE3 engine for PS3... NOT Unreal Tournament 3. I am sure the dev team developing UT3 has already created many tricks to optimize for the PS3... which will eventually trickle down to other UE3 games on PS3. I am almost positive what Phil Harrison was saying was a direct response to all the hate 3rd part dev's (like Koei, etc) have against the UE3 engine on the PS3.

My point is... general optimization of the UE3 engine != to optimization of UT3 on the PS3. Too many people think of the UE3 engine as an empty house waiting for you to decorate it to your liking. In reality it is more like a plot of land's foundation. You still have to tailor it to your specific needs for your specific game.

 

[DJ12]

I'm sorry but i find it hard to believe..

Especially since Phil Harrison only announced a few days ago that Sony are pledging to aid Epic in Optimizing UE 3.0 for PS3..

Does that screen look like a game that needs optimising to you?

He said they had already sent people to help Epic if you want to be picky, which probably meant several months ago.

 

[Phil]

Yuck @ screen.

Guess I won't be buying into any UT game afterall.

 

[archangelmorph]

Uhh buddy... that's a still image. That could be running at 5fps, so what is the basis of your judgement? The IQ?

Wow! why so defensive dude!

Well if you really want to know; The IQ, Lighting seems so far above what i've seen UE 3.0 do either in released titles or titles in development (particularly at an anonymous company of whom I had the pleasure of attending a job interview for a position centred around an UE 3.0-based title..)

Also, They are pledging to optimize UE3 engine for PS3... NOT Unreal Tournament 3. I am sure the dev team developing UT3 has already created many tricks to optimize for the PS3...

If that was the case then why in the hell would Epic need help optimising the engine when they'd already have it running without too much trouble on the platform? Thats pretty messed up logic if you ask me..

which will eventually trickle down to other UE3 games on PS3. I am almost positive what Phil Harrison was saying was a direct response to all the hate 3rd part dev's (like Koei, etc) have against the UE3 engine on the PS3.

It's not hate but more an outcry of discontent between 3rd parties who have so far struggled to get their engines up and running well on the platform.. And its not just UE 3.0 specific.. Believe me..

My point is... general optimization of the UE3 engine != to optimization of UT3 on the PS3.

What do you think is doing all the rendering for UT3 then?

Too many people think of the UE3 engine as an empty house waiting for you to decorate it to your liking. In reality it is more like a plot of land's foundation. You still have to tailor it to your specific needs for your specific game.

Actually it's more lack a game engine and toolset written originally for PC and ported (rushed) to console platforms without sufficient time available to optimise it to the point where it's practically useful "out-the-box".. So far all the devs I know using the engine have either re-written most of it (for performance reasons) or have been waiting for Epic to do so which isn't easy when you have your own development schedules to keep to (see the "Silicon Knights Sues Epic" thread for a perfect example...)

 

[Neb]

textures look way too good for PS3. PC-Screenies I bet.

Unless ingame cut-scene material perhaps. Looks to clean though.

its probably taken from a cutscene so it could be either.

the PC version could probably potentially look better than the PS3 version, but reports thus far say both versions look identical.

Actually not, there will be some differences.

Epic have confirmed the PC version will have additional graphical options over the console versions:

http://www.beyondunreal.com/content/articles/198_1.php

"We’ve authored our content to support scaling the visual bar to match your system’s specs. With texture streaming support on all platforms, there won’t be much difference in texture fidelity based on your hardware, but high end PCs will see differences in character detail, dynamic lighting, etc."

Sounds better than the usual "higher res textures and screen resolution"

 

[djskribbles]

well, i did say it will probably potentially look better on PC (if you have the hardware that can handle it) and that the reports i've read thus far have said they look identical (GS and IGN) but who knows what settings were used when they showed the PC version at the time. i have not read otherwise until you showed me, and i'm not surprised.

also, Npl said the texture quality is too good to be PS3, but i'm guessing texture quality will be similar on all 3 versions.

 

[almighty]

"We’ve authored our content to support scaling the visual bar to match your system’s specs. With texture streaming support on all platforms, there won’t be much difference in texture fidelity based on your hardware, but high end PCs will see differences in character detail, dynamic lighting, etc."

That could mean loads of things, more details over the PS3 version if you have a fast enough PC? More details over a low-spec'd PC?

Its not very clear.

 

[Neb]

That could mean loads of things, more details over the PS3 version if you have a fast enough PC? More details over a low-spec'd PC?

Its not very clear.

Well it says a high-end PC (and I suppose high resolutions to).

Here is one link with translated part but it is not the whole interview.
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/792/792593p1.html

Since optimization work is still ongoing, these details may change every day. Generally speaking, the game runs quite smooth with DX9 hardware released by NVidia and Ati since 2006. On high-end cards, including the DX10 models, UT3 runs incredibly smooth already.

http://www.beyondunreal.com/content/articles/198_1.php

BU: Can you elaborate specifically about what will be different in the PC version: ie menu/gui/features/textures?

SP: We’ve authored our content to support scaling the visual bar to match your system’s specs. With texture streaming support on all platforms, there won’t be much difference in texture fidelity based on your hardware, but high end PCs will see differences in character detail, dynamic lighting, etc. Of course, the user interface will be significantly different on PC to take advantage of mouse and keyboard input, as well as PC monitor resolution.

 

[almighty]

Since optimization work is still ongoing, these details may change every day. Generally speaking, the game runs quite smooth with DX9 hardware released by NVidia and Ati since 2006. On high-end cards, including the DX10 models, UT3 runs incredibly smooth already.

With the DX10 cards poor performance when running DX10 code id say they are refering to the games DX9 renderpath.

An old interview in regards to PS3 development....

We asked Epic Games vice president Mark Rein, who was also present at the demo, about the target frame rate. “It’s simply too early to say, but we’re aiming for it to be as high as possible,” he responded. For the record, the 720p, totally un-optimized build running on hardware less powerful than the final PS3 spec was clipping along at 49fps.

It an old interview and they could of added more eye candy to bring the framerate down but it sounds good

 

[_phil_]

guys , you're discussing around an oversampled bullshot...

 

[DJ12]

http://gamers-creed.com/wp-content/gallery/UT3/105506145020070724134306.jpg

That is more indicative of in game (seeing as it's a total jaggiefest as you would expect)

Still looks really good to me I will have to say. Not too far away from the screen at the top of the page in my opinion (Jaggies not included obviously)

 

[archangelmorph]

Well it says a high-end PC (and I suppose high resolutions to).

Here is one link with translated part but it is not the whole interview.
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/792/792593p1.html


http://www.beyondunreal.com/content/articles/198_1.php

Interesting quotes Nebula..

What exactly does the guy imply when he says "character detail"?

If as he implies this is orthogonal to Texture quality then am I right in assuming he's talking about mesh detail? (varying poly models for each version or some form of progressive mesh solution?)

It's either that or mapping (normal etc..) res which wouldn't make much sense since I'd assume they'd be streamed under the same system as the diffuse ones (so by that logic they shouldn't need to change either, unless deliberately..?)

 

[dabomb665m]

Wow! why so defensive dude!

Well if you really want to know; The IQ, Lighting seems so far above what i've seen UE 3.0 do either in released titles or titles in development (particularly at an anonymous company of whom I had the pleasure of attending a job interview for a position centred around an UE 3.0-based title..)


If that was the case then why in the hell would Epic need help optimising the engine when they'd already have it running without too much trouble on the platform? Thats pretty messed up logic if you ask me..


It's not hate but more an outcry of discontent between 3rd parties who have so far struggled to get their engines up and running well on the platform.. And its not just UE 3.0 specific.. Believe me..


What do you think is doing all the rendering for UT3 then?


Actually it's more lack a game engine and toolset written originally for PC and ported (rushed) to console platforms without sufficient time available to optimise it to the point where it's practically useful "out-the-box".. So far all the devs I know using the engine have either re-written most of it (for performance reasons) or have been waiting for Epic to do so which isn't easy when you have your own development schedules to keep to (see the "Silicon Knights Sues Epic" thread for a perfect example...)

Take whatever I said as you will, I'm was merely saying that nothing you mentioned has any backing whatsoever... from your comment about the screen shot (which my original statement still stands... just because it looks good in a still shot doesn't mean it doesn't need optimizing... that's some broken logic there) to what you are currently stating as well.

My point is, the Engine team and the UT3 team are most likely not the same now since epic has made a business out of the engine licensing. What is being developed for UT3 on the PS3 does not automatically translate into the UE3 engine itself. If this were the case, there wouldn't be the controversy right now between silicon knights and their claim that epic was holding out gears of war derived code for the UE3 engine. All signs point to the two being separate. What I was merely suggesting (since sony didn't say specifically they were going to optimize UT3) is that Sony could be helping the general ENGINE team to get the thing up to speed. We don't know if the UT3 team has made any significant strides on the PS3 platform but like I was trying to make an analogy with... what works for UT3 in terms of UE3 engine mods might not work for any other game using the UE3 engine. Nice work with totally skewing my analogy of the engine and explaining the obvious as if you know something everyone else doesn't btw...

Perhaps the defensive side is coming from your apparent know all attitude and speaking as if what you are saying is fact. Apparently you still feel the same way since even when presented with an alternate scenario you still try to make baseless claims. If you have any FACTS that point otherwise... such as how you claim Sony is sending help just for this game... then by all means, do share. Until then, you should perhaps refrain to post with that omniscient tone of yours. For now, I will stick to my conjectures about the engine team and the game team being separate in lieu of the current UE3.0 controversies.

 

[archangelmorph]

Take whatever I said as you will, I'm was merely saying that nothing you mentioned has any backing whatsoever... from your comment about the screen shot (which my original statement still stands... just because it looks good in a still shot doesn't mean it doesn't need optimizing... that's some broken logic there) to what you are currently stating as well.

Firstly the still is a bullshot.. Secondly the biggest problem with the PS3 UE3.0 is by far rendering performance and with that it's pretty easy to understand where my statements were coming from..

My point is, the Engine team and the UT3 team are most likely not the same now since epic has made a business out of the engine licensing. What is being developed for UT3 on the PS3 does not automatically translate into the UE3 engine itself.

Not straight away but the fact is if Epic's issues with UE 3.0 and PS3 weren't related to Epic's own difficulty in terms of getting to grips with the hardware and only with respect to a lack of resources then Sony wouldn't have need to step in.. Epic could have just as easily increased staff in the solution was a simple as "carry forward all our UT3 optimisations into the general engine"..

We don't know if the UT3 team has made any significant strides on the PS3 platform but like I was trying to make an analogy with... what works for UT3 in terms of UE3 engine mods might not work for any other game using the UE3 engine.

In terms of rendering it should.. which is by far the bulk of the problem with 3rd parties getting the platform up to speed for practical use..

Nice work with totally skewing my analogy of the engine and explaining the obvious as if you know something everyone else doesn't btw...

huh?

Perhaps the defensive side is coming from your apparent know all attitude and speaking as if what you are saying is fact. Apparently you still feel the same way since even when presented with an alternate scenario you still try to make baseless claims.

What are you talking about?

If you have any FACTS that point otherwise... such as how you claim Sony is sending help just for this game...

How did you come to this conclusion? I never stated such an idea.. Are you understanding me at all or just continuing your defensive rant?

Until then, you should perhaps refrain to post with that omniscient tone of yours. For now, I will stick to my conjectures about the engine team and the game team being separate in lieu of the current UE3.0 controversies.

Omniscient?

And thats quite a feat you've got there being able to comprehend "tone" from a text based discussion..! I would consider myself impressed by such a skill if not by the fact that your evaluation was waaaay off..

Hey well anyway it's your problem buddy, if you don't want to take my word for it then dont, but it doesn't change the fact that i've heard alot of things with regards to UE3.0 and the PS3 platform that I simply can't say on these boards for breach of confidentiality..
Nobody said i'm presenting a "know-it-all" attitude and if you really don't like what i'm saying then by all means stick to your own "baseless" conjectures by which you so ferverently hold..

Geeez..!

 

[dabomb665m]

Firstly the still is a bullshot.. Secondly the biggest problem with the PS3 UE3.0 is by far rendering performance and with that it's pretty easy to understand where my statements were coming from..


Not straight away but the fact is if Epic's issues with UE 3.0 and PS3 weren't related to Epic's own difficulty in terms of getting to grips with the hardware and only with respect to a lack of resources then Sony wouldn't have need to step in.. Epic could have just as easily increased staff in the solution was a simple as "carry forward all our UT3 optimisations into the general engine"..


In terms of rendering it should.. which is by far the bulk of the problem with 3rd parties getting the platform up to speed for practical use..

huh?


What are you talking about?


How did you come to this conclusion? I never stated such an idea.. Are you understanding me at all or just continuing your defensive rant?


Omniscient?

And thats quite a feat you've got there being able to comprehend "tone" from a text based discussion..! I would consider myself impressed by such a skill if not by the fact that your evaluation was waaaay off..

Hey well anyway it's your problem buddy, if you don't want to take my word for it then dont, but it doesn't change the fact that i've heard alot of things with regards to UE3.0 and the PS3 platform that I simply can't say on these boards for breach of confidentiality..
Nobody said i'm presenting a "know-it-all" attitude and if you really don't like what i'm saying then by all means stick to your own "baseless" conjectures by which you so ferverently hold..

Geeez..!

Again, call my post what you want, if you cannot bring facts to your statements your conjectures are just as baseless... everyone can say they are hiding behind an NDA on the internet. All you have to do is go back to your original #83 post... read the implications of what you yourself said (basically saying if the game looks this way, it doesn't need help from sony... but sony is there to help UE3, therefore UT3 doesn't look this way). If you can't see the broken logic there, then I admit defeat, you win. UE3.0 does not equal UT3, just like UE3.0 does not equal GoW. Again if they WERE the same in development, then people like silicon knights wouldn't have an issue with epic. Even so, the burden of proof is still on you, since you're the one that claimed the game can't look this good because sony is helping with UE3.0

I do not care if that is a real shot or a bullshot, I was merely calling you out for the shit you claimed there. You spoke as if it's fact... and that you know something the rest of us don't. Again, prove to me that sony is there helping specifically for UT3 and there would be no argument. Otherwise stop trying to hide behind "confidential" information.

 

[archangelmorph]

Again, call my post what you want, if you cannot bring facts to your statements your conjectures are just as baseless... everyone can say they are hiding behind an NDA on the internet. All you have to do is go back to your original #83 post... read the implications of what you yourself said (basically saying if the game looks this way, it doesn't need help from sony... but sony is there to help UE3, therefore UT3 doesn't look this way). If you can't see the broken logic there, then I admit defeat, you win. UE3.0 does not equal UT3, just like UE3.0 does not equal GoW. Again if they WERE the same in development, then people like silicon knights wouldn't have an issue with epic. Even so, the burden of proof is still on you, since you're the one that claimed the game can't look this good because sony is helping with UE3.0

I've gone obver this in subsequent posts and therefore i'm not going to re-iterate..

If you want to ignore them and refocus on the initial one then thats your problem..

I do not care if that is a real shot or a bullshot, I was merely calling you out for the shit you claimed there. You spoke as if it's fact... and that you know something the rest of us don't. Again, prove to me that sony is there helping specifically for UT3 and there would be no argument. Otherwise stop trying to hide behind "confidential" information.

Why do I need to prove anything to you? Like I said if you don't want to take my word for it then thats your own problem.. Your entitled to your own oppinion and frankly I don't care what you believe..
I don't frequent B3D to prove points that I make to people who question them..
If you don't like what i'm saying and you don't want to accept it then thats fine by me..

But don't for a second try to claim that I'm somehow talking shit/my points are any less valid than your own on the subject matter since I could just as well ask you to prove the opposite (which you sure as hell wouldn't be able to..)
Geez I don't get why some people get so arsey when you contend with their oppinion on a subject (regardless of whose the more informed, if at all..)

And for the record i'm not about to break NDA and lose my job just for the sake of an internet arguement.. It's CLEARLY not worth it..

Now maybe we can get back on topic please?

Namely the subject of UT3's exclusivity?