Unreal Engine 5, [UE5 Developer Availability 2022-04-05]

[chris1515]

It's a very efficient LoD and rasterizer which doesn't bog down hugely with small polygons.
Actual rendered polygon amount is not that high, few millions. (The source polygon amount is meaningless metric.)

If they would render porous materials or objects with dense highly variable geometry, then the geometry amounts would be quite different. (possibly tens or thousands of polygons in pixel.)
Hopefully they will introduce rasterizer/tracer for those objects as well.

Rendering side certainly is the 'easy' part in this.
Certainly will be interesting to see how large the objects will be in storage.

They have a Quixel Megascan library for the rock in the demo and some rock are above 100 MB or 200MB of data, some people downloaded the assets I can't imagine the sise of the statue asset.

https://quixel.com/megascans/collec...nt&category=natural&category=limestone-quarry

 

[Arwin]

You have missed a point in this UE5 demo. The point is that developers can save time because they can work with the highest quality assets for designing levels and then at the end let UE5 calculate based on possible playthrough paths how much detail is actually needed. This saves a lot of development time and cost.

As for size on disk limitations, yes they will obviously exist, but the combination of not having to replicate assets for slow streaming scenarios and better compression did already result in the same game being half the size on disk or smaller VS previous gen. It is early days still but I predict that with all assets from a game being available at no latency at all times means they can be really clever about reusing assets all over the place in a way that does not automatically make them look repetitive. I think a game like Uncharted has shown to be incredibly clever about this, and also Dreams shows how you can be efficient with building a level with rescaled and resized variations of the same asset. If you can do this with 100GB of assets available to you at all time that are worth 200-400GB of last gen assets, you can still get a lot of variation out of that.

The future is very interesting, for sure.

 

[chris1515]

You have missed a point in this UE5 demo. The point is that developers can save time because they can work with the highest quality assets for designing levels and then at the end let UE5 calculate based on possible playthrough paths how much detail is actually needed. This saves a lot of development time and cost.

As for size on disk limitations, yes they will obviously exist, but the combination of not having to replicate assets for slow streaming scenarios and better compression did already result in the same game being half the size on disk or smaller VS previous gen. It is early days still but I predict that with all assets from a game being available at no latency at all times means they can be really clever about reusing assets all over the place in a way that does not automatically make them look repetitive. I think a game like Uncharted has shown to be incredibly clever about this, and also Dreams shows how you can be efficient with building a level with rescaled and resized variations of the same asset. If you can do this with 100GB of assets available to you at all time that are worth 200-400GB of last gen assets, you can still get a lot of variation out of that.

The future is very interesting, for sure.

An artist verified on era working with the UE 5 engine told, even with compromise they can do game looking as good or better than the demo. The engine is impressive but very buggy and currently not production ready. But teams need to work on futures game and it will help Epic to debug the engine.

For size I am sure in a few years at GDC, developers will say it is the main constraint.

 

[techuse]

It's a very efficient LoD and rasterizer which doesn't bog down hugely with small polygons.
Actual rendered polygon amount is not that high, few millions. (The source polygon amount is meaningless metric.)

If they would render porous materials or objects with dense highly variable geometry, then the geometry amounts would be quite different. (possibly tens or thousands of polygons in pixel.)
Hopefully they will introduce rasterizer/tracer for those objects as well.

Rendering side certainly is the 'easy' part in this.
Certainly will be interesting to see how large the objects will be in storage.

UE4 has a history of greatly overpromising/underdelivering. Tech demos are always able to push visuals much higher than actual games. Remember the Elemental and Infiltrator demos which ran smoothly on a 680?

I'd say we have yet to see a UE4 game produce the visuals seen in either of those 2 demos, and it certainly wouldn't be playable on a 680.

 

[chris1515]

UE4 has a history of greatly overpromising/underdelivering. Tech demos are always able to push visuals much higher than actual games. Remember the Elemental and Infiltrator demos which ran smoothly on a 680?

I'd say we have yet to see a UE4 game produce the visuals seen in either of those 2 demos, and it certainly wouldn't be playable on a 680.

First the demo run on PC, here the demo runs on PS5 and it is playable. Epic said it but devs working with the engine confirm it. The inflitrator and the elemental demo are in a constraint environnement and non playable where they don't need to stream new data most of the time. Here the streaming system is in place.

It could be a tomb in the next tomb raider.

After assets quality needs compromise to make a game because size of game needs to be reasonnable 200 GB games is huge.

 

[techuse]

First the demo run on PC, here the demo runs on PS5 and it is playable. Epic said it but devs working with the engine confirm it. The inflitrator and the elemental demo are in a constraint environnement and non playable where they don't need to stream new data most of the time. Here the streaming system is in place.

It could be a tomb in the next tomb raider.

After assets quality needs compromise to make a game because size of game needs to be reasonnable 200 GB games is huge.

Epic said both Infiltrator and Elemental demo were completely playable too. I don't see why it matters whether it was a console or PC demo.

 

[chris1515]

Epic said both Infiltrator and Elemental demo were completely playable too. I don't see why it matters whether it was a console or PC demo.

This is important because they cut SVOGI of Unreal Engine 4 because console were not powerful enough to use it and it is used in the elemental demo. I never heard Epic said the infiltrator and elemental demo are playable. When I see in unreal engine site they talk about cinematic quality for inflitrator demo. Here it is playable and accessible for teams with a PS5 devkit and having access to UE 5.

https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Resources/Showcases/Infiltrator/index.html

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/learn/elemental-demo

 

[techuse]

This is important because they cut SVOGI of Unreal Engine 4 because console were not powerful enough to use it and it is used in the elemental demo. I never heard Epic said the infiltrator and elemental demo are playable. When I see in unreal engine site they talk about cinematic quality for inflitrator demo. Here it is playable and accessible for teams with a PS5 devkit and having access to UE 5.

https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Resources/Showcases/Infiltrator/index.html

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/learn/elemental-demo

They did. They manually flew around both demos in free control.

 

[chris1515]

They did. They manually flew around both demos in free control.

The difference in the Ue 5 demo, the woman is a playable character. The only non interactive part is the woman flying above the city at the end of the demo.

 

[techuse]

The difference in the Ue 5 demo, the woman is a playable character. The only non interactive part is the fly above the city at the end of the demo.

I guess we will see what transpires but I think Epic's history with demos speaks for itself.

 

[Karamazov]

And just in that image, its nor suprassing CP2077 pc in my opinion. I think forbidden west will do better impressions across the board then rift apart does.

CP2077 has next gen effects dealing with last gen assets, not a single model in the game is higher detail/poly on pc vs ps4/xbx

 

[Karamazov]

I think what most people are point but not quite able to put into words in the on rails section shown is that, even though that scene takes place in the same level as you're showing in this screenshot, the fact that it's on rails has some advantages because it is constrained. For example, if you place the camera/gameplay on a rail, with a fairly fixed speed, you know exactly what parts you need to load in and when. In the gameplay area in your screenshot, you can move in any direction at variable speed. I'm not saying they need to constrain the game to an on rails section for technical reasons, but it would certainly simplify the IO to know what assets and at what LOD you need them and when, and to be able to discard what you know you will no longer need. I doubt you could even turn the camera around during that section. Again, for gameplay reasons you wouldn't want to.


Hold my beer. Also, size is not always of quality.

True for cutsenes, here while on rails you can turn the camera as you want, it's not fixed, and action moves faster than while exploring on foot.

 

[PSman1700]

verified on era

Oh that kind of crap sufacing again.

 

[jlippo]

The PS Access guys said that when you turn enemies into pixels (voxels?) with the Pixelator, you can see that each little cube is perfectly ray traced, and you can go on photo mode to see that and play around with that. I can't deal.

Also they talked about the water effects being super advanced, but from the trailer it didn't look like the water was all that, so maybe they updated it since.

(desperately trying to ge the thread back on track)

They have had nice water before, so I certainly cannot wait to see their new try.
Actually, I cannot wait to get Ps5 some year and try the game.. it looks amazing.

 

[snc]

UE4 has a history of greatly overpromising/underdelivering. Tech demos are always able to push visuals much higher than actual games. Remember the Elemental and Infiltrator demos which ran smoothly on a 680?

I'd say we have yet to see a UE4 game produce the visuals seen in either of those 2 demos, and it certainly wouldn't be playable on a 680.

yeah especialy Infiltrator demo, 0 aliasing, no shimering, perfect stable cgish like image hehe would love to see something like this durign gameplay

 

[techuse]

yeah especialy Infiltrator demo, 0 aliasing, no shimering, perfect stable cgish like image hehe would love to see something like this durign gameplay

Never going to happen with UE4. It actually reminds me a lot of the opening CGI intro of FF7 Remake. Not as dense and geometrically complex though.

 

[London Geezer]

Another interesting game will be God of War Ragnarok if the game is exclusive to PS5.

It's on PS4 too, I thought this was confirmed?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

It's on PS4 too, I thought this was confirmed?

Jaffe claimed it was coming to PS4 with means it almost certainly isn't as his predictions about every first party PlayStation game have been wrong for years. By the law of averages some of his predictions should have panned out but now but he's a barometer for what is not going to happen. He's not even wrong only about games, in January 2020 he predicted Sony would show PS5 within four weeks. If he predicts sunshine, buy an umbrella.

 

[London Geezer]

Oh! Never mind then!

 

[pjbliverpool]

CP2077 has next gen effects dealing with last gen assets, not a single model in the game is higher detail/poly on pc vs ps4/xbx

Without commenting on the CB2077 vs R&C discussion (i think they have such differing art styles and scopes that they are difficult to compare), I just want to say that I don't think high detail models are a good bellwether for whether something is last gen or current gen. Model quality within games will vary vastly depending on the scope of the game. Car models in the latest PS4 GT game for example would be far more detailed than those in GTA5, and perhaps even beat out those in GTA 6. The lead character models in say Uncharted 4 may well be more detailed than the NPC's in GTA6 and so on...

The fact is that the model detail show in Rifts Apart would be possible on the PS4 if you were to "scale back the effects" to more of a last gen level. Sure the resolution and framerate might be terrible and the texture resolution would have to be cut back to save on memory as well as perhaps reducing the number of objects/characters on screen at any given time, but the models themselves aren't impossible for last gen.