Unreal Engine 5, [UE5 Developer Availability 2022-04-05]

[GhostofWar]

So from what I've read the Finals is now UE5, but I don't think it uses nanite, lumen or vsm. I took a very quick look at the practice area and the performance is much much better than during previous playtests.

The old version was using rtxgi and had quality settings in the options for it if I remember correctly, is that still in the options menu?

 

[Scott_Arm]

The old version was using rtxgi and had quality settings in the options for it if I remember correctly, is that still in the options menu?

Yep, still there.

 

[GhostofWar]

Yep, still there.

Using that instead of lumen I guess, and the destruction might make nanite not really usable on much?

 

[DavidGraham]

Using that instead of lumen I guess, and the destruction might make nanite not really usable on much?

Yes indeed, they opted for RTXGI and standard geometry because 90% of the maps are destructible, they needed a lighting system to handle that dynamism well.

 

[Andrew Lauritzen]

Trees with bark that actually looks like trees with bark!!! Yeah, the game might be janky (kind of expected from this developer) but it looks absolutely amazing at times.

Regards,
SB

Played for 3-4 hours yesterday with my wife (who is the true Ark fanatic) and man... it does look nice. As I noted, it's not hard to find areas with Lumen flicker or shadow issues or places that desperately need local tone mapping, and so I do expect people to just go find those places and post them as proof of why it's bad or Unreal is bad or whatever, but the reality is that stuff is always polish and art iteration time things, in any engine. Overall it's quite a pretty game TBH, especially from a smaller studio/art team. I must say it has exceeded my expectations in that regard.

 

[Andrew Lauritzen]

Yes indeed, they opted for RTXGI and standard geometry because 90% of the maps are destructible, they needed a lighting system to handle that dynamism well.

Lumen HWRT probably handles it as well as RTXGI these days or better - hence why they are retiring RTXGI in UE5. In fact if it's still there in The Finals are we sure it is using a recent version of UE5? IIRC RTXGI was removed in 5.2 (and may not have worked in 5.1)?

Either way I don't think the expectation is that anyone will really use those modes in serious play in the The Finals, so it wouldn't make sense to optimize art around the assumption that it is present. Both are going to be far too heavy for a twitchy PVP shooter like The Finals for now.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Lumen HWRT probably handles it as well as RTXGI these days or better - hence why they are retiring RTXGI in UE5. In fact if it's still there in The Finals are we sure it is using a recent version of UE5? IIRC RTXGI was removed in 5.2 (and may not have worked in 5.1)?

Either way I don't think the expectation is that anyone will really use those modes in serious play in the The Finals, so it wouldn't make sense to optimize art around the assumption that it is present. Both are going to be far too heavy for a twitchy PVP shooter like The Finals for now.

I'm not sure if there are easy ways to determine which UE version a game is using. Are there config files floating around that might contain hints? dlls with version numbers or something?

One thing I've noticed in the finals is the interiors can get dark if you're not using GI. I need to play some rounds to see how performance holds up with rtxgi enabled.

 

[Andrew Lauritzen]

I'm not sure if there are easy ways to determine which UE version a game is using. Are there config files floating around that might contain hints? dlls with version numbers or something?

Hmm good, question... also not sure. If there's a way to get console access I'm guessing you could infer it based on the presence/absence of cvars that were added in a given release, but without that I don't know.

 

[DegustatoR]

I'm not sure if there are easy ways to determine which UE version a game is using.

It's usually written explicitly in the EXE's properties in the file version field:

 

[Scott_Arm]

Looks like UE5.0 ... weird. I guess if they're not using nanite, lumen, vms and they're customizing the engine then they haven't felt the need to integrated newer versions of the engine.

 

[Andrew Lauritzen]

Looks like UE5.0 ... weird. I guess if they're not using nanite, lumen, vms and they're customizing the engine then they haven't felt the need to integrated newer versions of the engine.

Huh yeah makes sense why RTXGI is still there as well. Maybe a part of why they didn't update too? Not sure how much it's something they really care about or mainly a "easy to turn on as an option" and likely useful for cinematic/trailers.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Played for 3-4 hours yesterday with my wife (who is the true Ark fanatic) and man... it does look nice. As I noted, it's not hard to find areas with Lumen flicker or shadow issues or places that desperately need local tone mapping, and so I do expect people to just go find those places and post them as proof of why it's bad or Unreal is bad or whatever, but the reality is that stuff is always polish and art iteration time things, in any engine. Overall it's quite a pretty game TBH, especially from a smaller studio/art team. I must say it has exceeded my expectations in that regard.

Yeah, this is a good example of how UE5 allows an indie developer to offer visuals almost on par with AAA studios. But the level of polish required to take it that last little bit might be beyond most if not all indie developers.

There are times when I look at this game and feel like it's one of the best looking games (if not the best due to leveraging the geometric density of nanite) of this generation. But then other times it's just a really really good looking game which needs more polish.

It's certainly the most impressive UE5 commercial release (IMO) thus far, however.

Regards,
SB

 

[davis.anthony]

It's usually written explicitly in the EXE's properties in the file version field:

View attachment 9912

I'm still annoyed they've not released the RT stuff for that game.

 

[trinibwoy]

I'm still annoyed they've not released the RT stuff for that game.

Oh that’s right, all the promo material was pushing RT. Pretty funny.

 

[Frenetic Pony]

Oh that’s right, all the promo material was pushing RT. Pretty funny.

"Sure Nvidia we'll take your marketing money. Just, you know, won't actually release anything."

Smart?

 

[GhostofWar]

I'm still annoyed they've not released the RT stuff for that game.

Would the ukraine/russia war had an impact on this? Maybe nvidia couldn't/wouldn't provide the support they normally do? I've got no idea if it was even nvidia sponsored actually so maybe this is a brainfart and they just straight up cut n run.

 

[cheapchips]

I'm not sure if there are easy ways to determine which UE version a game is using. Are there config files floating around that might contain hints? dlls with version numbers or something?

One thing I've noticed in the finals is the interiors can get dark if you're not using GI. I need to play some rounds to see how performance holds up with rtxgi enabled.

Given how long The Finals has been playable for, I assume Embark are not iterating off last year's Kajiya GI experiments. Thought this was worth posting though, as it show that they're a studio to watch in terms of playing around with their own tech (if The Final's level of networked destruction wasn't enough to show off their technical proficiency).

https://github.com/EmbarkStudios/kajiya/blob/main/docs/gi-overview.md

Also, when they first formed they spend three weeks knocking up a landscape demo in UE4. It's really nice looking. ARC Raiders will be one pretty game even without leveraging Lumen/Nanite.

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/4byX8W

 

[davis.anthony]

Would the ukraine/russia war had an impact on this? Maybe nvidia couldn't/wouldn't provide the support they normally do? I've got no idea if it was even nvidia sponsored actually so maybe this is a brainfart and they just straight up cut n run.

They released an .EXE tech demo with all the RT running years ago.

So the engine work for RT is already in place and has been for years.

 

[troyan]

The Finals gets up to 100 FPS in native 4K with RTXGI on Epic on a 4090. So for them using a newer version of UE5 doesnt do anything. RTXGI is fast and provides very good image quality.

 

[GhostofWar]

Given how long The Finals has been playable for, I assume Embark are not iterating off last year's Kajiya GI experiments. Thought this was worth posting though, as it show that they're a studio to watch in terms of playing around with their own tech (if The Final's level of networked destruction wasn't enough to show off their technical proficiency).

https://github.com/EmbarkStudios/kajiya/blob/main/docs/gi-overview.md

Also, when they first formed they spend three weeks knocking up a landscape demo in UE4. It's really nice looking. ARC Raiders will be one pretty game even without leveraging Lumen/Nanite.

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/4byX8W

Fascinating, will finish reading it later but cheers for the links.