Uncharted 4: A Thief's End [PS4]

[psorcerer]

What's the difference between "physics-based" and "simulation-based"?

I would guess it's "collision-based" and "time-based", respectively.
Because usually "physics" is collisions and other ad-hoc interactions, and "simulation" is a list of time-based tasks that run on scheduler.

 

[VFX_Veteran]

I'm guessing physics is typical rigid-/soft-body physics while simulation is volume simulation of the sand. Physics will apply deformations based on the physics solve and mesh, and simulation will apply deformations based on volumetric calcs.

No way they would do that in real-time for a simple prop as a sandbag.

 

[chris1515]

http://livestream.com/gnomon/naughty-dog

The livestream page with two other video

Vidéo game environment at Naughty Dog and game character creation

 

[L. Scofield]

I'm guessing physics is typical rigid-/soft-body physics while simulation is volume simulation of the sand. Physics will apply deformations based on the physics solve and mesh, and simulation will apply deformations based on volumetric calcs.

Looking at their tool videos, I noticed two things:

1) Adding a bit of ragdoll physics to pre-made bone animations.
2) A tool to transform morph target animations (such as physics simulations) to bone animations.

It could be that they made the sandbag deformation simulations in Maya and exported them to their engine as bone animations. When the sandbag receives a certain amount of damage it triggers an animation while using the extra ragdoll effect to make it more dynamic.

 

[DieH@rd]

What's the difference between "physics-based" and "simulation-based"?

Simulation-based is pre-calculated. Like those ripped apart sail cloths and flags in the "storming the Normandy" level of Ryse.

http://www.fxguide.com/featured/the-tech-of-cryteks-ryse-son-of-rome/

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Simulation-based is pre-calculated. Like those ripped apart sail cloths and flags in the "storming the Normandy" level of Ryse.

These things are unrelated. You can have real time or precalculated deformations of any sort, including rigid body physics, cloth sims or simple skinning or anything. Vertex caching is completely agnostic of the deformations applied to the mesh.

Edit: point is, ND didn't say anything at all about caching deformations. What they mean by "simulation" is probably just the regular stuff.

 

[L. Scofield]

These things are unrelated. You can have real time or precalculated deformations of any sort, including rigid body physics, cloth sims or simple skinning or anything. Vertex caching is completely agnostic of the deformations applied to the mesh.

Edit: point is, ND didn't say anything at all about caching deformations. What they mean by "simulation" is probably just the regular stuff.

Actually they did show that, except instead of using point caches they have a tool to convert the vertex animations to bone animations.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Actually they did show that, except instead of using point caches they have a tool to convert the vertex animations to bone animations.

That is something completely different, again.

Caching deformations is a trade off between interactivity and quality. The data becomes completely static, but you have a lot of freedom in what you can do. It's basically a playback and will be the same every time.

Baking deformations into skinning is not sacrificing interactivity, you can still do a lot with the resulting bone movements - blend between them, mix them together, repeat them etc.

 

[L. Scofield]

That is something completely different, again.

Caching deformations is a trade off between interactivity and quality. The data becomes completely static, but you have a lot of freedom in what you can do. It's basically a playback and will be the same every time.

Baking deformations into skinning is not sacrificing interactivity, you can still do a lot with the resulting bone movements - blend between them, mix them together, repeat them etc.

You can do a lot with bones but the base simulation IS baked.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Consider that they're using this tool mainly to convert blendshapes into bone based facial expressions, which are then keyframe animated and mixed together and all. It is not necessarily a baked simulation at all, it offers a lot more freedom.

Also, the main point is that just because they have a tool like this, it says nothing at all about how any given feature in the game is implemented, including that sack of flour.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Nolan Norths talk a little about the changes to Uncharted 4 after Amy Hennig's departure. Don't expect anything groundbreaking but I'm surprised he's spoken at all. But this bodes well the for Star Wars game too!

 

[Billy Idol]

Is this the reason why we have the delay? 8 month thrown away?

 

[Cjail]

Nolan Norths talk a little about the changes to Uncharted 4 after Amy Hennig's departure. Don't expect anything groundbreaking but I'm surprised he's spoken at all. But this bodes well the for Star Wars game too!

Amy Hennig is the only reason why I bought Uncharted 1...she and the fact that Simon Templeman was in it

Without her my "faith" in ND has diminished significantly

 

[orangpelupa]

in mafia 2, the dev also explained that no ToD is an artistic decission. You want certain mission on certain times for the mood etc.

i think GTA V also did this. if you run the main mission on night but story want it for day, the time will move accordingly

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Amy Hennig is the only reason why I bought Uncharted 1...she and the fact that Simon Templeman was in it

Were they standing behind you in the queue at GameStop with a knife? "Buy our game or we kill you now".

Without her my "faith" in ND has diminished significantly

I've long been a fan of Hennig as well but no single person at Naughty Dog can take credit for how good those games were and don't forget that Neil Druckmann and Bruce Straley were both heavily involved in Uncharted 2. Bruce and Amy were both Directors on that game and Neil was a designer. Any doubts I had that Hennig was critical to Naughty Dog's success faded with The Last of US which she was not involved. They had many great people working on those games.

 

[L. Scofield]

Consider that they're using this tool mainly to convert blendshapes into bone based facial expressions, which are then keyframe animated and mixed together and all. It is not necessarily a baked simulation at all, it offers a lot more freedom.

Also, the main point is that just because they have a tool like this, it says nothing at all about how any given feature in the game is implemented, including that sack of flour.

Necessary or not, that's what their tool can do. In fact two of their examples are converting cloth and ocean simulations to bone animation:

15m18s

 

[AlNom]

Moved the general GI discussion:
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/baked-global-illuminati-in-games-spin.57052/

 

[Cjail]

@DSoup

I didn't say that she alone is "responsible" for everything "good" there is in UC.
I just like her and all the game she directed have entertained me so her departure from ND made UC 4 really less appealing to me.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I just like her and all the game she directed have entertained me so her departure from ND made UC 4 really less appealing to me.

I get it. But I looked at the story of Uncharted 2 which had Hennig and Neil directing and Uncharted 3 which was Hennig and Josh Scherr (because Neil was writing and directing The Last of Us) and much prefer Uncharted 2's story and general game design.

Uncharted 4 will be interesting, though.

 

[scf]