UK : PlayStation 3 enjoys record pre-orders

[mrcorbo]

There are 1080i broadcast which benefit from a 1080p native set (it's the resolution that matters), and movies. The choice is basically one of movies+documentaries versus sports+games I think! If you prefer sports and gaming, and care less for movies, a 720p set is probably a better choice. Next gen, within 10 years, 1080p games will be readily doable (we've yet to see how well they manage this gen), so a 1080p set will be good for games, movies, and those 1080i broadcasts, making it a preferred choice over 720p. And eventually we'll get 1080p broadcasts somehow, but I doubt in 10 years. Not sure what tech will be needed to enable those.

At the moment, there seems to be quite a push to encourage 1080p. For movies, which I think are most valued for the home cinema experience, I guess it makes sense. In which case, a 1080p console might catch your eye. Personally, I doubt average consumers are that savvy, and i doubt any but a handful of people pick PS3 over XB360 just because it has TrueHD or 1080p stuck on it. As others have commented, first and foremost is the PlayStation brand. Then comes wowzer games and movie playback and 'my friend says it's really cool and much better than XB360' and all that other jazz. 1080p will mostly only be raised in layground squabbles IMO. 'Yeah, but PS3's in True HD and XB360 isn't, so nyah'

Good points all. I'd also add that display size and viewing distance also factor in when weighing the benefits of 1080p vs 720p.

See this chart: http://www.carltonbale.com/wp-content/uploads/resolution_chart.png

I already know from this chart that at the screen size and viewing distance that I will be using that 1080p offers no benefit to me as far as added detail since that added detail would be inperceptable to me. But, I will also be using my panel (when I actually buy it) as a PC display and having a 1920*1080 desktop has definite advantages over 1366*768, even if I can't make out each individual pixel. So I do have a practical reason to buy a 1080p panel.

The sad thing is, like you pointed out, for most the decision to go for a 1080p panel has more to do with "spec wars" than any real practical benefit.

 

[Jov]

Both HD-DVD and BR support 1080p actually, again you're totally misinformed. And PS3 also is a GAMING PLATFORM, so you can't attribute it's sales to a checkbox feature of it's BR player, I thought you said you were using logic here...

Well I did state I was borrowing your logic.

My initail post regarding PS3 was perferred was related to those I know, and NOT a representation of mainstream.

Back on topic, besides the heritage factor of the PlayStation brand, I wonder if UK gamers have a higher appreciation of [H/W] technology (higher specs, more features, bang-per-buck) than Japan or NA as a contributing factor to this record pre-order figure?

Similar to how the original Xbox was doing better in UK compared to the rest of Europe.

 

[mrcorbo]

My bad, it was early Toshiba HD-DVD player limited to 1080i, but the point is from the get-go BR/PS3 always pushed 1080p compared to their competitors who had to play catch up.

The early Toshiba player was 1080i only because at the time of its release 1080p displays were few and far between. Had HD-DVD players come out later or BR players earlier you would have likely seen them offer the exact same functionality.

It's pretty funny that you would classify the competitors of BR/PS3 as having to play catch-up. They came out later. Pretty easy to make them seem forward-looking when you are comparing them to their competitors past products/functionality.

 

[-tkf-]

The sad thing is, like you pointed out, for most the decision to go for a 1080p panel has more to do with "spec wars" than any real practical benefit.

Hell, buy a small enough tv or move away from your current set and DVD is more than enough and you might as well pass on the new consoles and settle for a Playstation One while you are at it.

But please let me have my 1080p movies at least that way i can be prepared when the lens,lamps and panels are ready to show me full 1080p HD in excellent quality.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

This ties into possibly why there are 'record' pre-orders for the EU launch. I can only go by what some of you are saying, but my understanding is EU has a much larger install base of HD displays (sound about right?)

If thats the case, then this could help explain why so many early adopters want to get a PS3 to pump out some HD content on their HD starved displays?

Its not the case. Europe is probably the region (compared to USA and JPN) that has the least HD installbase.

The first HD (HD as in 720p or higher) broadcasts in most countries was during the World Cup in 2006. We didnt sell HDtv's here before 2005.

At the end of 2005 there were already 2m 'HD ready' TV households in Europe

By the end of 2005 there were 19m households with HDTV sets in the US (17% of total TV households) with 11m of these watching HD broadcasts. At the same time 14% (6.7m) of TV households in Japan were HD ready.

http://www.screendigest.com/reports/06highdeftv/readmore/view.html

Europe btw, has a population of ~750million lets say an average household is 3. So by the end of 2005, 0,8% households had HDTV's in europe.

 

[Nick Laslett]

I was watching the Gadget Show on Channel 5 yesterday and they claimed that 1/3rd of all spending on Electronics in 2006 in the UK was on flat screen TVs.

Not sure how meaningful that statistic is, don't know enough about where it came from, what is classed as electronics, I assume this is by value, etc.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Europe btw, has a population of ~750million lets say an average household is 3. So by the end of 2005, 0,8% households had HDTV's in europe.

Well nowadays HDTVs are quite common especially in the target democraphic, and stores are basically selling HDTVs only at this point.

 

[Arwin]

Ehm, ostepop, there are different definitions for Europe. The one you are using isn't quite so common, and you may want to make sure that you are putting the right numbers together. If you take the EU market, then we are talking about 260.000.000 inhabitants, which is comparable to the U.S. (which has about 40 million more, I believe).

The HDtv sales are going up really fast. As I posted elsewhere, in the Netherlands we went from 300.000 HDtvs sold in 2005 to 900.000 sold in 2006. The Netherlands has about 16.5 million inhabitants, which I guess in terms of statistics means about 4-5 million households. That makes for about 25% of households owning an HDtv. While I don't think the Netherlands is typical for all of Europe, I do think sales will be comparable among the richer European countries (Germany, U.K., France, Scandinavia, Belgium, etc.)

The reason for the excellent sales of HDtvs, by the way, has only partly to do with the HDtv capacity. Sales are much more driven by the TVs being flatscreens, which saves space, looks nicer, and weighs less. My wife forced me to go HDtv a bit earlier than I planned for exactly that reason. I think Sony's timing for the PS3 is pretty decent, for Europe at least. But we'll see soon enough!

 

[Todd33]

Europe has 750million people now? Wow, they have been getting it on!

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Europe has 750million people now? Wow, they have been getting it on!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe

European side of Russia alone is 120million, Germany 80m, France 65m, UK 60 m,Turkey 70, Italy 60million, Spain 45m, Ukraine 45m Poland 40m, Scandinavia 20million.

This alone is 605million inhabitants. Now add the other 40 countries in here and pretty soon it all adds up.

Ehm, ostepop, there are different definitions for Europe. The one you are using isn't quite so common, and you may want to make sure that you are putting the right numbers together.

The one i use, is the one that is by definition Europe, if you open an atlas, this is what europe is, which is the MOST commonly used definition. The EU is the European Union, not Europe.

Antshaw used the term "Europe", "Europe" is this:

If you take the EU market, then we are talking about 260.000.000 inhabitants, which is comparable to the U.S. (which has about 40 million more, I believe).

I suggest YOU make sure your putting the right numbers together, and the right definitions.

The EU, the European Union has a population of close to 500,000,000.

No matter how you look at it, if its 2million HDTV in 1.1.2006 in the EU or 2million HDTV's in 1.1.2006 in the whole Europe, its safe to say that we do not have a bigger installment of HDTVs.

The HDtv sales are going up really fast. As I posted elsewhere, in the Netherlands we went from 300.000 HDtvs sold in 2005 to 900.000 sold in 2006. The Netherlands has about 16.5 million inhabitants, which I guess in terms of statistics means about 4-5 million households. That makes for about 25% of households owning an HDtv. While I don't think the Netherlands is typical for all of Europe, I do think sales will be comparable among the richer European countries (Germany, U.K., France, Scandinavia, Belgium, etc.)

HDTV sales are indeed going up real fast, however claiming that europe, or the EU + scandinavia, has a lot bigger installbase of HDtv's than the states or japan, is wrong. Most likely, it has a far smaller installed userbase, either way you look at it.

You dont really need statistics for it.

We know that HDTV's in general came here later than in the states and JPN. We know that we had a much smaller install base by the end of 2005.

We know that over 50% of the EU (European Union) has a very small average income compared to JPN and the states (in some cases 2x as small).

We know that tax level is higher than in the US.

Its safe to say that europe, per 1.1.07 does NOT have a bigger installed userbase of HDTV's than the states or JPN.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Ehm, ostepop, there are different definitions for Europe. The one you are using isn't quite so common, and you may want to make sure that you are putting the right numbers together. If you take the EU market, then we are talking about 260.000.000 inhabitants, which is comparable to the U.S. (which has about 40 million more, I believe).

EU countries have total of over 450 million people

The HDtv sales are going up really fast. As I posted elsewhere, in the Netherlands we went from 300.000 HDtvs sold in 2005 to 900.000 sold in 2006. The Netherlands has about 16.5 million inhabitants, which I guess in terms of statistics means about 4-5 million households. That makes for about 25% of households owning an HDtv. While I don't think the Netherlands is typical for all of Europe, I do think sales will be comparable among the richer European countries (Germany, U.K., France, Scandinavia, Belgium, etc.)!

I remember seeing figures that the sales of flatscreen TV had similar growth percentages in Finland too, but I can't seem to find the figures anywhere...

My wife forced me to go HDtv a bit earlier than I planned for exactly that reason.

You have taught her well.

Its safe to say that europe does NOT have a bigger installed userbase of HDTV's than the states or JPN.

Well if we are only talking about the amount of units instead of percentages then I wouldn't be so sure atleast the population difference between Europe and Japan is so large that if we don't have more units now, we will soon.

edit: I would like to add that the HDTV sales have been skyrocketing in Europe for the last two years and because of that it's evident that the market definately has "rich soil" for HD-equipment. The HD situation is already pretty good in Europe and this gen is just starting, two years from now everybody who matters has HDTV.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

I remember seeing figures that the sales of flatscreen TV had similar growth percentages in Finland too, but I can't seem to find the figures anywhere...

I think those figures of growth percentages will be pretty much equal in all of the regions.

Well if we are only talking about the amount of units instead of percentages then I wouldn't be so sure atleast the population difference between Europe and Japan is so large that if we don't have more units now, we will soon.

Agreed

 

[Crossbar]

The one i use, is the one that is by definition Europe, if you open an atlas, this is what europe is, which is the MOST commonly used definition. The EU is the European Union, not Europe.

Antshaw used the term "Europe", "Europe" is this:
.....

Actually he wrote EU.
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=932522&postcount=96

Which you actually quoted in your own post:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=932574&postcount=105

Anyway, maybe he was thinking about HD-ready displays?

 

[AntShaw]

Actually he wrote EU.
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=932522&postcount=96

Which you actually quoted in your own post:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=932574&postcount=105

Anyway, maybe he was thinking about HD-ready displays?

It's all semantics...

I was under the impression that the adoption rate of HD displays (720p,1080i,1080p) was much higher in EU or Europe for that matter.

 

[Nappe1]

Funniest thing is that these so called HDTV televisions sold now, are most likely unable to receive HDTV broadcasts without a set top box, when transmissions at last start in terrestial networks around the europe.

To get this HDTV really took off faster, they should have start broadcasting HDTV when DVB-T transmissions started with MPEG2 already. Now many countries are stating that they wait for DVB-T2 and MPEG4 set top boxes before they start HDTV broadcasts. Which again means yet another update to ppl, which makes them angry. (they are ppl quite furious with digital SDTV and need of set top boxes. Finland is about to should down analog broadcasts in 1st of September this year.)

 

[Arwin]

We have an HDtv / MPEG4 set top box right now (Samsung). I have to say that I prefer a set-top box over a built in receiver, because I prefer to be able to upgrade these items separately. I'm pretty sure for instance that the set-top box is a great place to have a HDD recorder built in, because I wouldn't be surprised if pretty soon that's the only place you can record the original digital signal at the proper resolution. That's just one example, but I really feel they are better off being separate. In the UK though apparently you've got something like Freeview, which TVs are getting built in and which I presume is some kind of digital receiver also?

 

[spwolf]

Well I did state I was borrowing your logic.

My initail post regarding PS3 was perferred was related to those I know, and NOT a representation of mainstream.

Back on topic, besides the heritage factor of the PlayStation brand, I wonder if UK gamers have a higher appreciation of [H/W] technology (higher specs, more features, bang-per-buck) than Japan or NA as a contributing factor to this record pre-order figure?

Similar to how the original Xbox was doing better in UK compared to the rest of Europe.

30+ games might have had helped as well. There is big difference between games in November and in March - Motorstrom, F1, VF5 are all pretty exciting PS3 exclusives (at this time)... add a lot of BD movies coming out, some good PSN games (which I want the most), and interest is picking up.

 

[PARANOiA]

30+ games might have had helped as well. There is big difference between games in November and in March - Motorstrom, F1, VF5 are all pretty exciting PS3 exclusives (at this time)... add a lot of BD movies coming out, some good PSN games (which I want the most), and interest is picking up.

Aargh.. never mind

 

[-tkf-]

Europe btw, has a population of ~750million lets say an average household is 3. So by the end of 2005, 0,8% households had HDTV's in europe.

Of those 750 million how many are living in poor countries were a PS3 or 360 is on top of the "must have list"? it would be interesting to see the numbers from the original 12 EU countries + Sweeden and Norway.

If you buy a TV today and it´s LCD/Plasma it's HiDef ready, the sales most be skyhigh..

Flatscreen television sales in denmark :
2002: 1.000
2003: 20.000
2004: 60.000
2005: 200.000
2006: 365.000
2007 400.000+ is expected.

Looks like were following the Netherlands pattern nicely and i see no reason why the rest of Scandinavia, UK, Germany, France shouldn´t do the same..

Its not the case. Europe is probably the region (compared to USA and JPN) that has the least HD installbase.

I´m sorry but anyway you try and spin it, the Europe as defined by the Europe that can and will buy and XBOX360 and a PS3 has alot of HDTV´s.

 

[Gradthrawn]

And PS3 also is a GAMING PLATFORM, so you can't attribute it's sales to a checkbox feature of it's BR player...

A quick browse of the AVS Blu-ray Players forum and I think you'll find plenty of evidence to the contrary.