UE5 Timeline; When will other games release using Unreal Engine 5? *spawn*

BRiT

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Legend
Alpha
So much for keeping the upgrade path as simple as upgrade to UE 4.25 or 4.26. They must have had a solid reason for forcing such a big compatibility breaking change in the first place.
 

chris1515

Legend
So much for keeping the upgrade path as simple as upgrade to UE 4.25 or 4.26. They must have had a solid reason for forcing such a big compatibility breaking change in the first place.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/unreal-engine-5-was-unvealed-over-a-year-ago.427775/post-65265083

This is not for known and maybe the reason Hellblade 2 will be shown later, It seems the first game will probably arrive in 2023/2024.

No there is no chance of that (unless it's a prototype), when they say they give it to key partners early it's to get feedback on features, processes, how they can speed up workflows etc...no one in their right mind is going to develop anything with a preview version of an engine. Things are going to change radically from one preview iteration to the next..somethings will be rewritten, functions changes or dropped.No dev is going to constantly rewrite their stuff from iteration to iteration or dev with a buggy ass engine that could Wipeout your whole project at any moment.

You dev when Epic deems it stable. Even when stable You typically wait for 1 or versions and hot fixes to upgrade so you don't risk game breaking bugs
 

jlippo

Veteran
So much for keeping the upgrade path as simple as upgrade to UE 4.25 or 4.26. They must have had a solid reason for forcing such a big compatibility breaking change in the first place.
I wonder if things like moving to 64bit coordinates and such had part on this..
 

tuna

Veteran
"You dev when Epic deems it stable. Even when stable You typically wait for 1 or versions and hot fixes to upgrade so you don't risk game breaking bugs"

This is not for known and maybe the reason Hellblade 2 will be shown later, It seems the first game will probably arrive in 2023/2024.

If you got technical skills you can work with non-stable APIs and frameworks.
 
D

Deleted member 13524

Guest
If you got technical skills you can work with non-stable APIs and frameworks.
AKA "you do Epic's job of patching things up while paying them* for using the engine"?

*after doing $1M in sales
 

zed

Legend
Just the typical epic shitshow. This is why I hope Ms buys them, yeah it will still be slow and not cutting edge but at least we will have documentation. Each version becomes longer and longer because they have to make it back compat (in part) with perv versions.
Ue5 should of been a clean break. If nothing else get rid of the you are making a 'first person shooter' based on unreal ok you're not but just pretend you are
 

SumoSaki

Newcomer
I don't think many large selling (5m plus) AAA game developers will use UE5 given the 5% cut. I'm sure you can fund updating your own engine for that amount of cash.
 

cheapchips

Veteran
I don't think many large selling (5m plus) AAA game developers will use UE5 given the 5% cut. I'm sure you can fund updating your own engine for that amount of cash.

Some will, same as today. It's not as if most big budget titles are guaranteed to sell 5m+. You might have reduced profits after a certain point, but it's more important to achieve profitability.
 
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D

Deleted member 13524

Guest
I don't think many large selling (5m plus) AAA game developers will use UE5 given the 5% cut. I'm sure you can fund updating your own engine for that amount of cash.

Besides the possible bilateral agreements mentioned in the posts above (I doubt e.g. Sony needs to pay 5% of game profits, after investing over $300M in Epic for engine development) the current trend is for more studios to adopt the big engines due to the integration of the middlewares that Unity and Epic are buying.

Even the most hopeful devs on in-house engines are aware of this:
http://alextardif.com/Unreal.html
 
Besides the possible bilateral agreements mentioned in the posts above (I doubt e.g. Sony needs to pay 5% of game profits, after investing over $300M in Epic for engine development) the current trend is for more studios to adopt the big engines due to the integration of the middlewares that Unity and Epic are buying.

Even the most hopeful devs on in-house engines are aware of this:
http://alextardif.com/Unreal.html

It'd be quite strange if a 2.8% stake (250 million USD in 2020 for 1.4% stake, 200 million USD in 2021 for another 1.4% stake) would entitle them to free usage of the engine without payments or royalties for more than a year. Perhaps that's why they've been doing yearly investments into Epic and we'll see another 200+ million USD investment in 2022.

Even then, I'm highly skeptical that a 2.8% ownership stake in Epic entitles them to payment free usage of UE for all their internal studios. Especially considering Epic would stand to make more than that from Sony if Sony's first party titles continue to sell as well as they have. Tencent holds a 40% stake in the company and even they don't get "free" use of the engine in commercial products.

I'm sure their other high profile investors would be happy to know that Epic are just leaving money on the table if this were the case. Investors like Disney, Endeavor, the group of 7 (KKR, ICONIQ, Smash Ventures, aXiomatic, Vulcan Capital, Kleiner Perkins, and Lightspeed Venture) who invested 1.25 billion USD, the aforementioned Tencent, etc.

So yeah, I'd be highly surprised if Sony had any such arrangement. It's more likely that the investment is just part of Sony Financial diversifying its investments and Epic with the success of Fortnite is considered a safe investment for their investment portfolio. People tend to forget that Sony isn't just a game, movies, music and electronics company. Sony is also one of the largest financial companies in Japan and thus investment in Epic makes a lot of sense.

Regards,
SB
 
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D

Deleted member 13524

Guest
It'd be quite strange if a 2.8% stake (250 million USD in 2020 for 1.4% stake, 200 million USD in 2021 for another 1.4% stake) would entitle them to free usage of the engine without payments or royalties for more than a year. Perhaps that's why they've been doing yearly investments into Epic and we'll see another 200+ million USD investment in 2022.

Even then, I'm highly skeptical that a 2.8% ownership stake in Epic entitles them to payment free usage of UE for all their internal studios. Especially considering Epic would stand to make more than that from Sony if Sony's first party titles continue to sell as well as they have. Tencent holds a 40% stake in the company and even they don't get "free" use of the engine in commercial products.

I'm sure their other high profile investors would be happy to know that Epic are just leaving money on the table if this were the case. Investors like Disney, Endeavor, the group of 7 (KKR, ICONIQ, Smash Ventures, aXiomatic, Vulcan Capital, Kleiner Perkins, and Lightspeed Venture) who invested 1.25 billion USD, the aforementioned Tencent, etc.

So yeah, I'd be highly surprised if Sony had any such arrangement. It's more likely that the investment is just part of Sony Financial diversifying its investments and Epic with the success of Fortnite is considered a safe investment for their investment portfolio. People tend to forget that Sony isn't just a game, movies, music and electronics company. Sony is also one of the largest financial companies in Japan and thus investment in Epic makes a lot of sense.

Regards,
SB


No one said Epic was handing out UE licenses to Sony for free.

I said I doubt it's the same 5% as everyone else's. Those 5% are probably meant for indie titles, which can cross the $1M in revenue right after 30-40K copies sold.

If the sales predictions are very high, Sony and Epic negotiate a flat payment or a lower fee. If they're not, then it's still probably not 5%. The Unreal Engine wouldn't have reached where it is today if Epic was completely obtuse in their rates.
 

zed

Legend
as we could see from the epic vs apple court case Epic only made ~$220m revenue (not profit) from their engine in 2018/1019 combined, you divide that up by prolly at least 100 games that came out then, and you can see its not a big profit earner
 
as we could see from the epic vs apple court case Epic only made ~$220m revenue (not profit) from their engine in 2018/1019 combined, you divide that up by prolly at least 100 games that came out then, and you can see its not a big profit earner

It's solid, easily. A triple A game takes around $50-100 million today, but that's for the entire game, art and design and qa and all, over the course of say, 4 years. Even if Epic spends the higher end of that literally just on the engine alone, that's just $25 million a year. Costs beyond that are going to be relatively minimal in comparison. So, sure, it's not Fortnite. But over a hundred million a year in after tax profits would be a good product even for Apple, let alone anyone else.
 

turkey

Veteran
as we could see from the epic vs apple court case Epic only made ~$220m revenue (not profit) from their engine in 2018/2019 combined, you divide that up by prolly at least 100 games that came out then, and you can see its not a big profit earner

Has the licensing model changed, in 2018/2019 we had games on UE3 launching still. Mortal Kombat is a high profile title and UE3 according to in infallible Wikipedia.
 

techuse

Veteran
Besides the possible bilateral agreements mentioned in the posts above (I doubt e.g. Sony needs to pay 5% of game profits, after investing over $300M in Epic for engine development) the current trend is for more studios to adopt the big engines due to the integration of the middlewares that Unity and Epic are buying.

Even the most hopeful devs on in-house engines are aware of this:
http://alextardif.com/Unreal.html
Even if UE5 turns out much better than UE4 and UE3 I really hope we keep a solid level of engine variety.
 

cheapchips

Veteran
Even if UE5 turns out much better than UE4 and UE3 I really hope we keep a solid level of engine variety.

Hard to envisage Ubisoft, EA or even Sony moving away from their own tech. Are there other noticeable in house engines that wouldn't just be as well served by augmented UE or Unity?
 

techuse

Veteran
Hard to envisage Ubisoft, EA or even Sony moving away from their own tech. Are there other noticeable in house engines that wouldn't just be as well served by augmented UE or Unity?
I was more referring to smaller studios like Flying Wild Hog. They already abandoned their engine and moved to UE4 for the latest Shadow Warrior. It seems like the larger publishers are safe but you never know. I certainly wouldn't want a repeat of the PS3/Xbox360 era where UE3 was just everywhere.
 
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