Toshiba Cell Based Console?

["Nerve-Damage"]

It’s no secret that Toshiba invested heavily (rumored $65-$100 million) in the Cell processor development.

1) How would Toshiba recoup its investment and manufacturing cost of the Cell processor? It would seem (IMO) just using the Cell alone in PDA’s, TVs, workstations, and other electronics will not cover all the investment & manufacture cost, even in the long-term investment since. Especially when there are better processors all ready creeping up.
2) What would keep Toshiba from entering in the game console market with a Cell based game console?
3) Is there agreement between Toshiba & Sony on that issue?
4) If so couldn’t they get around that issue by calling it a gaming PC even if all the components are closed-end.

It’s not like Toshiba is a total noob when it comes the gaming/console industry. Imagine the upset they could pull off if they were able to release a gaming machine based on the Cell processor by late 2008 with the right amount of 1st and 3rd party developers. I have three possible models in mind that would be fairly priced ($400-$500). Remember these are 2008 specs based around today’s technology or next year’s technology and or the year after that.

Model One:
CPU: Cell processors
GPU: Latest ATI (600 series) or NVIDIA (G80 series) based GPU
Drive: HD-DVD
Ram: 768MB (possibly XDR 2)

Model Two:
CPU: 2 Cell processors
GPU: 2 GPU (ATI 600 series or NVIDIA G80 series)
Drive: DVD-9
Ram: 512MB (possibly GDDR 4)

Model Three:
CPU: 2nd generation Cell processor
GPU: ATI 700 series or NVIDIA G90 series
Drive: DVD-9
Ram: 512MB (GDDR 4)

Thoughts? Answers?

 

[one]

No software, no console. IIRC Intel once considered entering the console business.

 

[bobthebub]

I know I should go and search for links from the iSuppli teardown but IIRC Toshiba has almost as much silicon in PS3 as Sony has, it wins and they win - fortunately, cos in my humble, HD-DVD is gonna die a horrible death.

 

[Skrying]

Is $65~$100 million that much for Toshiba? I do not know how large of a company they are, but that doesn't seem like that big of an investment.

And Toshiba would never make a console. I'm sorry.

 

[dobwal]

doubt it.

If you think Sony would enter into a partnership with IBM and Toshiba and not protect themselves contractually by not allowing IBM and Toshiba to directly enter the gaming industry using Cell, YOU ARE CRAZY.

 

[SPM]

Toshiba is not going to manufacture games consoles. They have announced some time back that they were going to put Cell in every one of their high end HDTVs, which is why they participated in the Cell program. They could also put Cell into set top boxes and/or build computer features into their Cell based HDTVs sets or set top boxes.

 

[Paul]

Model four:

Cell based processor, 1TFLOPS peak floating point performance + 64MB e-DRAM
512mb XDR
Cell based Visualizer graphics processing unit, 512GFLOPS+32-64MB e-DRAM
HD-DVD

Oh the memories..

 

[Shark Sandwich]

4 dual-core Cell 2 processors
2 x nVidia G100
4096 MB DDR5 RAM
HVD drive

Ha! Beat that!

Seriously though, as much as I would love to see a console with a DX10 GPU in it, it seems like an incredibly stupid move for anybody to try and break into the console market right now. It's a catch 22 because the only way to make money is to sell tons of games, and the only way to get games made for your system is to sell lots of systems, and of course the only way to do that is to have games people want to play. One needs incredibly deep pockets, willingness to lose money for several years, and extremely high tolerance for risk in order to stand a chance at breaking into videogames at this point.

The "off-the-shelf" hardware approach makes it even harder to make a profit, it seems. Microsoft tried that approach with Xbox and lost like 4 billion dollars on it, and that was a "successful" console.

 

[Brimstone]

Any devices that CELL goes into will need a software infastructure.

Who would love to supply the software platform for all those devices? Microsoft.



I only see the Toshiba and Microsoft relationship growing bigger as time goes on. They don't step on each other toes because the companies are very different.


I'm sure Toshiba would love to get the contract to design the X-Box 720 CPU.

 

[weaksauce]

It has to be a 1000x faster!

 

[Rangers]

The investment required to get into the console space in a serious way is now absurdly high. Sadly, I see microsoft being the last new entry for the forseeable future.

I really wish Sega, Toshiba, anybody would get involved. I'm not that happy with the technology in 360 or PS3.

But that's just me, I like the tech more than playing games. While many wish for longer than 5 year console cycles, I'm the opposite, I'd rather see shorter cycles, just to get more tech here sooner. That's just to illustrate where I'm coming from.

I'm sure Toshiba would love to get the contract to design the X-Box 720 CPU.

Who says they have the ability? Sony didn't, they needed IBM.

Sadly, the CPU market is becoming locked down to 2 or 3 options (Intel, IBM, AMD) just like GPU's. Nobody else is even close anymore.
________
Water Bong

 

[dobwal]

The investment required to get into the console space in a serious way is now absurdly high. Sadly, I see microsoft being the last new entry for the forseeable future.

Samsung could get into the console race, they definitely have the resources.

 

[Brimstone]

Who says they have the ability? Sony didn't, they needed IBM.

Sadly, the CPU market is becoming locked down to 2 or 3 options (Intel, IBM, AMD) just like GPU's. Nobody else is even close anymore.

Toshiba has worked on console hardware for Sony with the PS2. They have plenty of engineers. You know their one of the largest semiconductor companies in the world?

I think we'll get wind of Microsoft working together with Toshiba very early if it happens. It'll take a fairly large commitment from Microsoft to create a software infastructure for CELL workstations.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Samsung could get into the console race, they definitely have the resources.

To do what?

If Microsoft and its Windows-moneytrain cannot sucsessfully beat Sony and playstation on its second try, Samsung will not even dare to dream about it.

Samsung, is like a third world country compared to the USA, in terms of its resources compared to Microsoft (after all, this is the company that bought $60 BILLION worth of GOLD as a cash reserve fond)...

+ They have no software

+ they have no developers...

Huge investments would have to be made.

 

[crazygambit]

Sadly, the CPU market is becoming locked down to 2 or 3 options (Intel, IBM, AMD) just like GPU's. Nobody else is even close anymore.

Nothing sad about it. It's what happens in a free market economy in an industry with huge economies of scale. The fact there are less companies allow them to have a bigger market share, so they can produce more and since they have economies of scale at a lower cost. Therefore you pay less than if there were 20 companies competing for the same piece of the pie.

This is why I always cringe when people say that more competition is always better, especially when told to fboys as a way to pointing out the stupidity of their wishing certain companies to go out of business. It's just wrong. There are certainly better ways to defuse fboy stupidity, and in this case IMO they're right.

3 Players is already too much for the console industry. Certainly Toshiba knows this and is NOT going to make a console of their own. If fact I'm hoping one of the three will die this gen. My money is on Nintendo (they can keep their hand helds where they do great).

 

[London Geezer]

4 dual-core Cell 2 processors
2 x nVidia G100
4096 MB DDR5 RAM
HVD drive

Ha! Beat that!

Pffft... A Blast Processor with built-in M.O.O.D. co-processors (for optimal emotion calculations) would blow that out of the water!

 

[CEO]

Wow. They Could do MASSIVE DAMAGE to the GAMEMARKET if they include REAL TIME DISC SWITCHING features if no GIANT ENEMY CRAPSTATIONS involved! We COULD LAUNCH 400 NUCLEAR MISSILES while enjoying CUTSCENES as VIBRANT AND DETAILED as FF the Spirits Within in REALTIME INENGINE with 16MSAA 24AF for Free because there woulnd't be RENDERED WITHIN SPECS BS anymore since they have to MAKE all MARKETING STUFF look WORSE THEN FOR REAL BECAUSE THEY DONT WONT TO GIVE AWAY anything in TERMS OF GRAPHICS TO the PS4 and XBOX1080.

Oh and BTW. I have preordered that Console already. Watch closely for devices called
Toshiba XD3T4G394 REGZA ArmagedDoomPocalypse. True Next Gen begins 4Q2007

Sorry i Cant give away details but i alread played MotorstormX and GOW2 Beta. And was all like

 

[SPM]

Who says they have the ability? Sony didn't, they needed IBM.

And Toshiba needed Sony and IBM - game consoles aren't just about putting out a piece of hardware and expecting games to suddenly appear for it.

Sadly, the CPU market is becoming locked down to 2 or 3 options (Intel, IBM, AMD) just like GPU's. Nobody else is even close anymore.

What are you talking about? The CPU market has never been more competitive than now. Ten years ago the desktop and low end server was Intel only. Now Intel and AMD have about equal share on the desktop, Intel, AMD, and IBM each have significant shares of the low end server, embedded, and gaming CPU markets.

 

[London Geezer]

Intel, AMD, and IBM each have significant shares of the low end server, embedded, and gaming CPU markets.

Once the next gen kicks in, IBM will have near-complete market share of the console market. Intel and AMD aren't even there. Toshiba and Sony are there as "partner" for the Cell chip together with IBM.

That's actually quite impressive if you think about it.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Intel, AMD, and IBM each have significant shares of the low end server, embedded, and gaming CPU markets.

When next-gen kicks in - IBM will hold ~90+% of the gaming CPU marked