*thread spin-off* Artistic Direction

[DemoCoder]

I do find the look of KZ a little too dark and drag, but it might be an artifact of them wanting to demonstrate lights, in much the same way that Doom3 was very dark, because they wanted to make the shadowing an integral part of the experience.

On the other hand, I don't like the look of Halo, never did. Do you really think a live action Halo movie will include bright green MC suits, and blue aliens with purple guns? It's like filming a modern Batman movie with Robin in red/yellow tunic and green tights, it just doesn't fit modernist tastes. Valve showed how to properly pull off bright color palettes in Team Fortress 2. Don't mix and match realistic outdoors with cartoonish character palettes.

On a related note, I am also sick to death of shooters where the main characters are a head attached to a super-blocky outfit which is supposed to be the military suit/uniform, and looks like it weighs 300 pounds. I'm talking about you Unreal, Gears, et al. Look, in Halo's case it works, because it's supposed to be a kick ass exoskeleton suit which is central to the story, but in other games, it's just a bit of wardrobe.

It's artistically more work to pull off realistic looking uniforms and clothing, rather than stick a head on a bunch of cubes, and paint it to look like armor. if you took Gear's characters, and painted the textures with car and robot parts, they'd look like Generation 1 transformers.

IMHO, FarCry pulls off the best "realistic" palette/look IMHO.

 

[DrJay24]

Apparently the drab cityscape is only the first part of the game, the part that isn't under NDA.

 

[suryad]

I do find the look of KZ a little too dark and drag, but it might be an artifact of them wanting to demonstrate lights, in much the same way that Doom3 was very dark, because they wanted to make the shadowing an integral part of the experience.

On the other hand, I don't like the look of Halo, never did. Do you really think a live action Halo movie will include bright green MC suits, and blue aliens with purple guns? It's like filming a modern Batman movie with Robin in red/yellow tunic and green tights, it just doesn't fit modernist tastes. Valve showed how to properly pull off bright color palettes in Team Fortress 2. Don't mix and match realistic outdoors with cartoonish character palettes.

On a related note, I am also sick to death of shooters where the main characters are a head attached to a super-blocky outfit which is supposed to be the military suit/uniform, and looks like it weighs 300 pounds. I'm talking about you Unreal, Gears, et al. Look, in Halo's case it works, because it's supposed to be a kick ass exoskeleton suit which is central to the story, but in other games, it's just a bit of wardrobe.

It's artistically more work to pull off realistic looking uniforms and clothing, rather than stick a head on a bunch of cubes, and paint it to look like armor. if you took Gear's characters, and painted the textures with car and robot parts, they'd look like Generation 1 transformers.

IMHO, FarCry pulls off the best "realistic" palette/look IMHO.

I kind of like the way the Gears of War game looks The characters armor looks sweet!!! Far Cry is a good looking game of that there is no doubt but I dont think it can be compared with Gears...I mean they are so different.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

On the other hand, I don't like the look of Halo, never did. Do you really think a live action Halo movie will include bright green MC suits, and blue aliens with purple guns?

The intro for the Halo RTS from Blur has shown just how cool everything would look in a more realistic style... IMHO.

It's artistically more work to pull off realistic looking uniforms and clothing, rather than stick a head on a bunch of cubes, and paint it to look like armor. if you took Gear's characters, and painted the textures with car and robot parts, they'd look like Generation 1 transformers.

It's kinda hard to make someone look badass in a simple uniform. Just look at the Doom movie vs. the Doom3 ingame characters

 

[DemoCoder]

Oh, I dunno, tons of action heroes look bad-ass without uber-blocky armor. Ahnold, Stallone, Willis, etc Arnold in Predator didn't need armor (the predator did!), he just needed a big ass gun. Duke Nukem probably comes closest to this aesthetic. Max Payne was pretty bad ass. Chow Yun Fat looks bad-ass.

Your right, it is hard to make a normal person look badass, but it can be done, that's why I said it's more work. Otherwise, you can take any old pipsqueak, slap a armor suit on him (Gordon Freeman anyone?) and he's no longer a wimp.

Hell, Ninja's look pretty badass most of the time.

I'm just tired of the armor/powersuit motif in every FPS. Too much armor "flair".

 

[AlNom]

Oh, I dunno, tons of action heroes look bad-ass without uber-blocky armor. Ahnold, Stallone, Willis, etc Arnold in Predator didn't need armor (the predator did!), he just needed a big ass gun. Duke Nukem probably comes closest to this aesthetic. Max Payne was pretty bad ass. Chow Yun Fat looks bad-ass.

On the other hand, perhaps there were plenty of artists simultaneously sick of the unaugmented look and we ended up with a string of Warhammer 40k inspirations.

 

[Terarrim]

Altair a la assasin creed is a very good character from a design perspective. The armour weapons, and clothing make up a very cool looking mysterious assasin character.

What I like about kz2 environments is the "live" war torn in the midst of it feel the game seems to have. I liken it a bit to the way that galactica uses the remote cam zooms and pans, and also how Private Ryan beach landing felt like there was a guy with a camera on his shoulder taping the action (i.e. there with the lads!).

The way the smoke and lighting, particles also give the game a real 3d effect to. Even in the 07 trailer the amount of volumetric smoke coming out of the city together with the tracer fire and explosions really sold the premise of the game to me.

 

[Dominik D]

On the other hand, I don't like the look of Halo, never did. Do you really think a live action Halo movie will include bright green MC suits, and blue aliens with purple guns? It's like filming a modern Batman movie with Robin in red/yellow tunic and green tights, it just doesn't fit modernist tastes. Valve showed how to properly pull off bright color palettes in Team Fortress 2. Don't mix and match realistic outdoors with cartoonish character palettes.

I disagree. You can have any sort of crazy palette as long as it matches the gameplay and setting. I, for one, hate new Batmans for being too modern and trying too hard to appeal to mass market. The Dark Knight is a be perfect action movie, just not a good Batman movie IMO.

Same for colors and what not - games don't have to be super serious, neither in gameplay nor in design. It is also important to understand where Halo comes from: it draws heavily from sci-fi written in eighties or so. Look at book covers back then and you'll see how it relates to Halo. You don't have to like it, sure, but it is what it is and expecting that all games would fit your taste is absurd.

On a related note, I am also sick to death of shooters where the main characters are a head attached to a super-blocky outfit which is supposed to be the military suit/uniform, and looks like it weighs 300 pounds. I'm talking about you Unreal, Gears, et al. Look, in Halo's case it works, because it's supposed to be a kick ass exoskeleton suit which is central to the story, but in other games, it's just a bit of wardrobe.

Two things. One: I have allergy to "this game is not realistic - nobody can do X". This is game. Realistic combat involves waiting for enemy move for hours, casualties amongst civilians, fear of your life and all the stuff games can't/won't/shouldn't portray. Bullet doesn't travel in a straight line yet ppl seem to be ok with ballistics in games.
Two: you are aware that bulky armor is a gameplay design decision, right? Again, games are that: games. They should be playable. One cannot expect gamers to have SEAL's skill or controller to be as accurate as humans are IRL. Designers have to make certain decisions to create playable games. You can increase auto-aiming, you can make characters larger. You can do other things but the bottom line is: it's still a game, at the very best rough approximation of reality.

To make long story short I think that you're suffering from "games should be realistic" syndrome. Which is yet another version of "consumers don't know what they want" syndrome. Which is OK, as long as developers know what they're doing.

 

[DemoCoder]

I disagree. You can have any sort of crazy palette as long as it matches the gameplay and setting.

I already gave an example of Team Fortress 2 as an excellent example of an alternate palette, but it has to be consistent. TF2 has a consistent design aesthetic through every map, model, etc. What would be silly would be taking TF2's character models and placing them in a Day of Defeat map, or placing Day of Defeat character models into a TF2 map.

And this, IMHO, is the problem with Halo's design. They have a sci-fi real-world look to the environment, and populate it full of "bad ass" characters that you're supposed to be afraid of, like Elites, who just happen to look like an evolution of Grover out of Sesame Street.

To make long story short I think that you're suffering from "games should be realistic" syndrome. Which is yet another version of "consumers don't know what they want" syndrome. Which is OK, as long as developers know what they're doing.

Nope, I play Team Fortress 2 every single day. I *LOOOVVVE* the look of TF2 as well as the non-realistic gameplay (rocket jumping, sticky jumping, medics, cloaked spies, etc) But Team Fortress 2 is consistent.

Would you be praising the look of Killzone 2 if the characters looked like 2D South-Park cut-outs/Parappa-the-Rapper? What if all the enemies were cell shaded?

Granted, it's an extreme example, but IMHO, Halo's overall artistic design is a mishmash of styles, like trying to do a Monet in the style of a Polluck. I love the music, I love the story (even if the proposed function of the Halos is somewhat silly), I love the voice acting, but I never thought Halo's visuals were an example of excellent art design. And the level design was not much better, "The Library" frustrated me so much I quit playing Halo1 for months.

 

[Brimstone]

Shadowrun took the Halo Red vs Blue color scheme and fleshed it out to great effect. The humans look like humans of normal stature. Since the game has fantasy creatures several different stature types are present. The lumbering hulk of a Troll, the lithe body of an Elf, and short and stocky nature of a dwarf. They contrast with each other well.

The overall Shadowrun art direction seems geared towards making things easy and fast recognize. Afterall your playing a game, not look at some painting. So the art style interfaces with the game play. The end result is that they eclipsed Halo.

As far as realistic goes, I've always found the Rainbow 6 games do a good job with that.

 

[NRP]

And this, IMHO, is the problem with Halo's design. They have a sci-fi real-world look to the environment, and populate it full of "bad ass" characters that you're supposed to be afraid of, like Elites, who just happen to look like an evolution of Grover out of Sesame Street.

Even though I am a huge Halo fan, I tend to agree with the notion that some of the character designs/colors/etc don't really fit well in the environments. It would seem that "a mish-mash of styles" is an appropriate way to descibe it. It never bothered me that much though.

A while back, I think Laa-Yosh showed some examples of how Halo's characters would look with a "grittier", more realistic appearance. IMO, they looked better than the cartoony look the characters currently have.

I also seem to remember Bungie talking about this issue, and I think they said that Halo's visual style was firmly established (and popularized) a long time ago, so they felt they couldn't make a change within the trilogy. Perhaps Halo 3: ODST can try a slightly different visual style?

 

[RobertR1]

Fable 2, to me, has a very good art direction. The enviornments and characters really compliment eachother well. The artstyle itself might not be for everyone but I love it.

 

[DemoCoder]

I also seem to remember Bungie talking about this issue, and I think they said that Halo's visual style was firmly established (and popularized) a long time ago, so they felt they couldn't make a change within the trilogy. Perhaps Halo 3: ODST can try a slightly different visual style?

True, I guess the fan base is used to the look of the Covenant, however they could do a grittier reboot, like Batman Begins, call it "Halo Begins" and set it before the time of Halo 1.

The Covenant grunts are the biggest out of place design, they sound like munchkins from the Wizard of Oz and don't look much better. I mean, if KZ2 had characters like this, it would be laughed off the boards.

I think BioShock is an example of good consistent art direction.

 

[AlNom]

True, I guess the fan base is used to the look of the Covenant, however they could do a grittier reboot, like Batman Begins, call it "Halo Begins" and set it before the time of Halo 1.

Actually... we may see a grittier style for ODST. At the very least, they said to expect the game to look along the lines of their CG trailer from TGS08.

 

[Deepblue]

As far as artistry in the Halo series is concerned, it has its ups and downs. Brutes are a low point IMHO, but the environments and vehicles exemplify great design IMO. Grunts fit the game because of the tone it sets - the game never takes itself too seriously (sometimes to the detriment of the dialogue/cutscenes). I also have to fervently disagree with your assessment of Elites - while I dislike the hunch they have adopted in Halo 2 and 3 in order to make MP character models, the overall aesthetic is iconic. Taking a look through the Art of Halo 3, it is very difficult to criticize much of the stuff in there. I feel that the largest bane of the art in the Halo series is the way crates and such are placed in urban areas by the mission designers to shift the flow of the encounters. While these variations can indeed add a lot to the encounter, I feel bungie could learn a lot from Valve when it comes to integrating this stuff into a cohesive environment. On the other hand, Valve could learn a lot from Bungie when it comes to enemy encounter dynamics, so it may be more difficult than that. Regardless, I feel that the art design truly stands the test of time. I have recently been playing through Halo 1 again, and while technically outdated, the game still has vistas and incredibly detailed textures that never fail to impress.

Have a gander at a few of my screenshots and tell me what you think. They're not the best, but I think they are a fair representation of some of the art in Halo 3.

 

[AlNom]

As far as artistry in the Halo series is concerned, it has its ups and downs. Brutes are a low point IMHO, but the environments and vehicles exemplify great design IMO. Grunts fit the game because of the tone it sets - the game never takes itself too seriously (sometimes to the detriment of the dialogue/cutscenes). I also have to fervently disagree with your assessment of Elites - while I dislike the hunch they have adopted in Halo 2 and 3 in order to make MP character models, the overall aesthetic is iconic.

It actually seems to be a running theme that they can put out very good designs for artificial objects, from armour to weapons, to vehicles. This is in stark contrast to their plain human designs in particular, which are rather... cartoony or plain ugly. Even the last cut-scene of Halo 3, you can see blocky heads for the troopers. Could they not have spent some time to make it look decent for the one scene?

The brute chieftain, I thought, was a very solid creation, but once you start taking the armour away.. it just doesn't look good. Maybe that was the intent - bad ass armour to cover plain-looking creatures - but there is the choice of making the creature bulkier and more menacing, which was not apparent. Up-close, I actually liked the Grunt design, and when you actually look at them, you can see the menacing eyes and the spiny details on their pop-eye arms. But there is indeed a disconnect when you start paying attention to the humourous undertones. As you mentioned, it's been like that since Halo: CE, and it's been a signature of sorts that unfortunately clashes with the mature advertising for the game.

Again, intricate details for the elite armour and Prophet of Truth's crown and all, but they seem to fall flat as far as facial designs go. While I can understand lower detail assets in-game, I think they should have gone the extra distance for the cut-scenes, which they did from a lighting and shadowing point of view, but that was it (not to belittle those qualities) and it seemed a waste with the models being less than stellar.

Maybe the only thing they got right with characters (from what I recall) was the detail in the eyeballs.

 

[Deepblue]

I think that's a fair argument. One of the worst art decisions IMHO was having Brute's armor pop off, since they clearly don't have the poly budget to make the underlying character model interesting while still modeling the armor over it. And the observation of polish is spot on. Every cutscene should have been up to the standard set by the game's intro (which was lathered in detail - including the human marines), but this is clearly not the case. From what I have heard (so take this with a grain of salt), MP and balance were the primary focus. In a way it's diametrically opposite of Gears 2, which has a wonderfully polished campaign but completely broken multiplayer. While I would prefer both components to have tremendous polish, I think it speaks volumes that I still spend most of my time playing Halo 3. I just hope that since Bungie is now independent, they will be able to have a "when it's done" release schedule for their games.

 

[patsu]

I do find the look of KZ a little too dark and drag, but it might be an artifact of them wanting to demonstrate lights, in much the same way that Doom3 was very dark, because they wanted to make the shadowing an integral part of the experience.

To me, the word to describe KZ2's beauty is "Alive". Some might call it immersive. ^_^

In some scenes, the smokes/wind engulfed Helghan convincingly. The lights are everywhere because of the lens flare effect, the debris and corpses felt solid when they danced towards me in the Ballet of Death; but the living soldiers look organic and soft although i can see the freaking polygons easily. The ISA soldiers looked like personalities from a classical novel. And yet the slick weapons reminded me of real WWII machineries.

It's like this weird dimension between my past life and rendered graphics. Can't wait to see it on the big screen. If this thing is on 3D TV, I'd be ducking my head to avoid all the hazards when I play the game.

 

[Deepblue]

Quick note about the weapons in KZ2 - they are literally pieced together from real weapons - hence why they look real.

 

[Neb]

Quick note about the weapons in KZ2 - they are literally pieced together from real weapons - hence why they look real.

That usually isn't enough though. The depth of field blur they apply on the weapons is what IMo makes the mreally stand out. Atleast the rifle (the most showcased weapon), the blur seems a bit to heavy on the others drowning the detail out.