The truth about 1080p.

[scooby_dooby]

Lots of technical details very interesting read. Probably the most conclusive and thorough explanation of 1080p resolutions and what support they really have.


http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/reality.htm

 

[_leech_]

I'd say the title is a bit misleading. Also, the article only talks about broadcast standards, compression and bandwidth requirements mostly, neither of which has anything to do with consoles.

 

[scooby_dooby]

It really talks about the true state of support for 1080p, or lack thereof.

I'd say it's very interesting for anyone planning on buying a 1080p TV for use with thier PS3.

 

[blakjedi]

I'd say the title is a bit misleading. Also, the article only talks about broadcast standards, compression and bandwidth requirements mostly, neither of which has anything to do with consoles.

I dont think that assessment is necessarily true. HDTVs are designed to accept broadcast signals, so if they can only display what is expected to be broadcast, with the expectation that a certain resolution will be displayed at certain amount of frames per second then at that point its the console that doesnt matter.

I think the article highlights the fact that a display of 1080p is not what some make it out to be -as many on this site have argued. People who want 1080P at 30 frames per second can maybe get it on an HDTV with a VGA/DVI input if the tv has a Monitor mode.

"To summarize: There are no fast refresh (30Hz or 60Hz) 1080p production or transmission formats in use, nor are there any looming in the near future – even on the new HD-DVD and Blu-ray formats."

Its not that what the says is anything new.. its that most people just didnt believe the folks contentions here that 1080p without a monitor is not a realistic expectation.

 

[seismologist]

I dont understand why these TV wont sync to a lower resolution like a computer monitor.

 

[blakjedi]

I dont understand why these TV wont sync to a lower resolution like a computer monitor.

I have a recent samsung (2003) that will automatically detect the resolution of my input (component) and display according. It even has a menu where I can force it display all incoming signals as a set resolution.

 

[DemoCoder]

First off, there is no 1080p HDTV transmission format.

Wrong. ATSC includes 1080p@30fps, 1080p@24fps, and 1080i@60fps (interlaced).

And what does his attack on "bob" style scaling matter to a 1080p set? Is he trying to imply that flagship model 1080p TVs will employ stupid scaling approaches?

Finally, there is this little gem on his website

You can have HDTV delivered to your home over fiber optic cables from your local phone company. Video over Internet Protocol (VoIP) is just getting started in many markets, but promises much higher bandwidth than cable, terrestrial, or satellite services.

VoIP = Video over Internet Protocol? Since when? Here is a guy trying to dump water on 1080p next-gen formats, but is simultaneously promoting something even more bluesky, HDTV over fiber optics to the home, using a confusing acronym "VoIP" which is already taken by VOICE OVER IP.

Anyone who buys an expensive 1080p set is going to either have a built-in scaler that can handle 1080i->1080p directly, or they're going to buy an external scaler. Moreover, next-gen formats are going to be mastered in 1080p@24fps, and playback devices will pulldown techniques like they do today for 480p. All the arguments over horizontal scan rates and how they relate to FPS is irrelevent.

Is the guys point that if you buy a 1080p set today, you'll get little benefit? Ok, that has some truth to it, although since I went to CES as well, and saw 1080p sets showing 1080i content next to 1080i sets, I know it is not true. Secondly, when next-gen DVD formats hit, source material will arrive in 1080p format.

You can probably afford to wait a year or two to go 1080p and buy a 720p set now, but the overall article is full of factual inaccuracies.

 

[scooby_dooby]

The guys point is if you buy a 1080p set today it doesn't actually display 1080p.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yeah I seen a 1080p TV playing the same thing on a 720p TV and the difference was noticeable. I would have brought the 1080p TV way before the 720p set, but there was one thing wrong.

The damn 1080p set had a bad refresh rate, so fast moving objects tended to ghost. When a baseball was rolling in the grass the ball looked like it was streched 5 feet. Yuck.

But on a interview (nothing fast moving back and forth) the 1080p TV stuck out and was WAY better.

 

[west]

Yeah I seen a 1080p TV playing the same thing on a 720p TV and the difference was noticeable. I would have brought the 1080p TV way before the 720p set, but there was one thing wrong.

The damn 1080p set had a bad refresh rate, so fast moving objects tended to ghost. When a baseball was rolling in the grass the ball looked like it was streched 5 feet. Yuck.

But on a interview (nothing fast moving back and forth) the 1080p TV stuck out and was WAY better.

anecdotal and therefore irrelevant
i.e. what was the screen size, manufacturer, price point....

 

[mckmas8808]

Yeah I seen a 1080p TV playing the same thing on a 720p TV and the difference was noticeable. I would have brought the 1080p TV way before the 720p set, but there was one thing wrong.

The damn 1080p set had a bad refresh rate, so fast moving objects tended to ghost. When a baseball was rolling in the grass the ball looked like it was streched 5 feet. Yuck.

But on a interview (nothing fast moving back and forth) the 1080p TV stuck out and was WAY better.

anecdotal and therefore irrelevant
i.e. what was the screen size, manufacturer, price point....

The screen size was 37", the manufacturer was something that started with a 'W', and the price point was about $2000. The quality was really noticeable. The green grass was much greener and all the other colors were so much deeper and richer. The only problem was when things moved fast the screen wasn't easy on the eyes.

When things were stationary the screen was probably the best that I have ever seen.

 

[scooby_dooby]

What does resolution have to do with the richness of colours?

You can't compare 2 different makes and models of TV's, notice one has better colour then conclude that must be because of the higher resolution.

the richness of the colours is not dependant on the amout of pixels on screen.

I have a 1080i set and with component cables the colours are almost TOO rich, i believe my colour is set somewhere around 40?

You woud need to find exact same makes and models to test 1080p vs 720p, even better would be to use something with a selectable output and use the same TV to tes, send one TV a 720p signal and the other a 1080p signal, then compare.

Even then you may get different results depending, some may handle 1080p better than 720p, or vice versa.

 

[3roxor]

the richness of the colours is not dependant on the amout of pixels on screen.

yes it is.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Source?

 

[west]

Yeah I seen a 1080p TV playing the same thing on a 720p TV and the difference was noticeable. I would have brought the 1080p TV way before the 720p set, but there was one thing wrong.

The damn 1080p set had a bad refresh rate, so fast moving objects tended to ghost. When a baseball was rolling in the grass the ball looked like it was streched 5 feet. Yuck.

But on a interview (nothing fast moving back and forth) the 1080p TV stuck out and was WAY better.

anecdotal and therefore irrelevant
i.e. what was the screen size, manufacturer, price point....

The screen size was 37", the manufacturer was something that started with a 'W', and the price point was about $2000. The quality was really noticeable. The green grass was much greener and all the other colors were so much deeper and richer. The only problem was when things moved fast the screen wasn't easy on the eyes.

When things were stationary the screen was probably the best that I have ever seen.

I meant for both tvs

 

[London Geezer]

I liked this bit:

Still think you’ve just gotta have that new 1080p RPTV? Wait until you see what standard definition analog TV and digital cable look like on it…

As if analog TV and digital cable look good on 720p or 1080i TVs... Also, any broadcast material now runs at 30fps, so how is that different from 1080p30 is beyond me... 1080p is perfectly manageable by 3D hardware, performance permitting obviously.

Go figure, some people will have a bias just about anything whatever happens.

 

[scooby_dooby]

why would the guy behind HDTVexperts.com be biased against 1080p displays?

 

[mckmas8808]

why would the guy behind HDTVexperts.com be biased against 1080p displays?

Why is he so much for VoIP(Video over IP) than standard satellite or digital cable? Every knows that Video over IP is further away from being in most people's homes than 1080p TVs.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I dunno, but look through the site. The amount of articles this guy has written and knowledge he seems to possess are pretty impressive.

I don't know why you would accuse him of bias.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Why is he so much for VoIP(Video over IP) than standard satellite or digital cable? Every knows that Video over IP is further away from being in most people's homes than 1080p TVs.

That quote is not even from this article, it's dug up from some other article on the site, I don't know the context.