No, the HDMI is shared with a DVI port. So DVI+DVI+DP or DVI+HDMI+DP.
The RV870 Story: AMD Showing up to the Fight
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No, the HDMI is shared with a DVI port. So DVI+DVI+DP or DVI+HDMI+DP.
FrameBuffer
Banned
Ok.. I thought I read the HDMI was shared.
Those don't work right for eyefinity though I believe, and the dual links cost almost as much as another display port monitor would.
Hmm yeah I think you're right about eyefinity, I haven't actually tried it. I do use a passive DP to DVI for my Mac and that works, so I figured it'd be okay as long as the res is below dual DVI. But it seems there are some issues.
FrameBuffer
Banned
Those don't work right for eyefinity though I believe, and the dual links cost almost as much as another display port monitor would.
Single link (VGA) should work with Eyefinity,.. theres a long thread at WSG and another over at [H] detailing success with such, the limit of course being you are stuck to single link rez at 60hz. If you want 120Hz with High rez you need the $100 active adapter.
I was holding out for the 5870 Six but seeing as it's been delayed until at least Q2 I'm probably just going to hold out until ATI's new parts (or at least NV's Fermi 2.0) arrive. Not sure of the changes required for DP 1.2 that would be needed or if any new parts are already too far along to incorporate it.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Well, prior to 58xx there wasn't really any push for DP, monitor makers (with the exception of Dell) were waiting on graphics card makers. And graphics card makers were waiting on monitor makes.
Going forward I'd expect DP to start gaining more traction on monitors with at least one IHV now providing ports as standard across their entire line of cards. With how perfect it would be for laptops if there was a mass adoption of DP and removal of DVI for external monitor connections on laptops that would be another vector of pressure.
Considering not many people will have 3 of the same size monitor sitting around, almost everyone interested in ultra widescreen gaming will have to pick up a 3rd monitor anyways, so from that perspective it's a non-issue...assuming of course, there's increased adoption by monitor makers.
I'd exect all the first tier monitor makers to provide DP at least in their mainstream lines and up. Not so sure how fast pickup will be with budget based monitors though.
Personally I'd love to see computer monitors move away from HDMI and 16x9 aspect ratios and embrace DP and move back to 16x10 aspect ratios.
I'm still wondering if we will ever see pure DP displays that remove all scaling and controls circuits in the monitor thus allowing ultra thin displays.
One of the key features that I've been wanting that was shown with some of the prototype displays that were shown with display port only and no scaling/control circuitry in the monitor.
Regards,
SB
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Requiring DP hasn't proven been a barrier to entry. Its impossible to say "how many" or what proporition of the cards will be used, and while I always expected the 3 panel configuration to be popular from the gaming perspective (which is why I pushed for the new reference display out on the "standard" boards) I'm a little surpised at how many are willing to go for it (though having scraped together 3 panels at work, I guess I shouldn't be - I still keep wondering how I'm going to plot to get 3 new panels past the wife at home...).
As it stands right now Dell have a fairly complete line of panels supporting DP, ranging from ~$180 20" all the way up to their 30" panels, and the DP panels such as the 2408 and 2410 are fairly well respected - curiously, the options for lots of pixel to the enthusiast game came from just going up to 2560x1600 on a 30", but for a similar cost you can do 3 24" 19x12 panels have surround gaming and more desktop realestate as well.
HP also have a reasonable line of DP panels, again sporting a fariy wide range of prices and we also have Lenovo and Apple there as well. Channel focused Eizo have some DP panels and Samsung have announced their thin bexel panels. As SB points out, the mere fact that there is now a large number of graphics card out in the channel with DP outputs on them by default that is going to be a boon for panel makers that were teetering on the edge of supporting going forward. Additionally when panels go direct drive with DP it can actually lower costs for the manufacturers/customers.
Of those that want to get access to Eyefinity by repurposing a panel they may already have then all that is required is an active adapter. Dual Link DP adapters are a little costly right now, but we are pushing with to have partners design much lower cost single link adapters. DP to VGA is certainly the cheapest way to get an active adapter at the moment.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
I'm assuming you mean ariticles on Direct Drive monitors (thanks Dave for reminding me of what that DP feature was called).
I'd have to look, this is from just a quick search (display port direct drive)
http://fireuser.com/blog/category/display_port/
If you scroll down you'll see a small picture of the Dell concept that was shown a couple years ago. 0.5 inches thick.
Once direct drive monitors start showing up, I plan to scrap all my current monitors and replace them. At that point the Eyefinity 6 card will suddenly be hugely interesting to me.
Unfortunately, it's unlikely any monitor makers will release one until Nvidia also has DP across their entire line... And even then it'll be a niche product for a while the install base of monitors with DVI is going to be the majority of the market for a while.Regards,
SB
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Oh, and I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Apple is the first to release a DP only Direct Drive monitor as they can pretty much dictate what all of their users will use.
Regards,
SB
Regards,
SB
^^ Very true, they do seem to be that way inclined. I wouldn't be surprised if that was their next big marketing push.
Btw, how do laptop monitors work? Are they what you'd call direct drive? I was just thinking in terms of what to expect from a direct drive monitor.
Btw, how do laptop monitors work? Are they what you'd call direct drive? I was just thinking in terms of what to expect from a direct drive monitor.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
It'll basically be the same as current monitors except without any control circuitry, scalers and whatnot. All of that will be handled by the graphics card.
So, for instance, displaying a 1680x1050 image on a 1920x1200 monitor, instead of the monitor scaling the image up, your graphics card would scale it up before sending the image to the monitor.
Regards,
SB
Thats pretty smart. So what would be left of the monitor aside from power supply and the panel itself?
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Backlighting and frame/stand.
I'm sure there's more, but nothing as significant as current control boards and scalers. And good scalers can add a fair bit to price as well as good control boards.So direct drive has the potential to significantly reduce the cost of displays.
Regards,
SB
Backlighting and frame/stand.
So direct drive has the potential to significantly reduce the cost of displays.
Regards,
SB
So in that case we can expect HP, Dell AND Apple models within the next couple of years? As they are OEMs they can package a monitor with their computers which fits the direct drive model.
Do you have any word on the ETA for DP motherboard chipsets?
Silent_Buddha
Legend
I don't know honestly. Dell has shown concepts/prototypes in the past. I guess it all depends on when they feel they can move a significant enough number of monitors. With ATI releasing an entire lineup of cards with DP outputs, that increases the likelyhood. Especially if Dell decides to go with them.
The potential spoiler in all this is that we're not sure what Nvidia will do. If Nvidia again skips on DP connections that puts a significant damper on any mass movement by an OEM unless they want to commit to one IHV only, and I can only see Apple doing that. The other major OEM's might move to a majority of one IHV or the other, but they'll usually maintain some options for the other one. If for no other reason than price negotiation leverage.
So if an OEM can't use it across their entire lineup, it becomes less likely for something new to be introduced.
However that said, Dell was very quick to jump in and add DP connections to their existing monitor lines. Out of all the OEM's I'd look to them to "probably" be first (other than Apple) with a direct drive monitor.
Remember direct drive is all or nothing, there is no legacy support on a direct drive monitor. So, as said, if one IHV doesn't release cards across their entire line with DP, it's going to most likely push back adoption of it. Which would be a crying shame.
So cross your fingers that Nvidia has a DP port on all Fermi based cards.
Regards,
SB
Not sure if I missed this bit in Anand's piece but did he mention how much (time) delay was responsible for the cutbacks in Cypress? For the NI refresh they could just build this hypothetical big-die Cypress on 32nm and be done with? That is assuming the rest of the ASIC scales linearly. If thats the case then we could be seeing tape-outs sooner (earliest tape out date available), shouldnt we since the chip is already done?
Well, monitors without scalers already exist for a while. The first 30" displays for instance all didn't have scalers (they could handle only either 2560x1600 or 1280x800), so the use of "current" here seems a bit inappropriate...
Silent_Buddha
Legend
But they still needed far more control circuitry than a direct drive monitor would need. In other words a pure direct drive monitor cannot accept anything other than a DP direct drive input. It would not know what to do with DVI or HDMI. Add in the things needed for DVI and HDMI and you're back to current monitors and current monitor thickness, at which point direct drive no longer makes sense and all you need is the DP port.
Or put another way DVI only would be roughly same cost and thickness of current monitors.
HDMI only would be roughtly same cost and thickness of current monitors.
DP Direct Drive would be thinner and cheaper to manufacture than current monitors.
Regards,
SB
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