The Rumor That Just Won't Die: MS To Announce HD-DVD for Xbox 360 at CES

[mckmas8808]

It wouldnt be disastrous. Theyve already set the expectations with multiple SKUs. Some people dont care about HD-DVD playback, and those people can pay less and buy a unit without it. I dont understand what the big deal is if they decide to come out with one.

Because it's a LOSING format!! Come on expletive, why would you want your console of choice to go with a losing movie format? If anything they should us Blu-ray if they have to go HD for movies.

 

[expletive]

Surely the big deal is as follows:-

1) If MS Launches HD-DVD add-on, it exposes expanded disc capacity and HD disc playback as desirable features to the minds of the general public. - MS won't sell many because it won't offer gameplay enhancements and HD-DVD will fail in the market because BD will have much larger installed base thru all PS3's having the functionality. MS doing this will enhance PS3's prospects.

2) If MS launches new version of 360 with HD-DVD, it probably won't be usable for Games, and will put off (some) potential 360 buyers who if they are going to buy a device that can play HD video will prefer to buy the one with Studio support -PS3

MS's best bet is to wait it out, if the PS3 and BD flop then they can add the functionality, doing it before that will actually hurt their prospects and cost them money. I don't see that as a viable possibility though.

The really interesting question is whether MS could put BD into 360's later down the line once it becomes dominant, I don't think Sony could stop them and there will be plenty people they could buy the hardware off other than Sony.

MS has already stated that games will ONLY EVER be on DVD-9. An HD-DVD based unit will ONLY be for movie playback, the games will STILL be on DVD-9. Now if you want to argue that DVD-9 is not enough for this gen's games then go right ahead (but its been done ad nauseum on many other threads).

Look at this way, Epson comes out with a photo printer for $200. 6 months later they come out with an all-in-one photo printer, copier, fax for $300. Does that make the Stand alone photo printer a 'disaster'? Does that mean Epson made a mistake with the $200 model or they were 'wrong'? No. They actually still sell stnad-alone photo printers. Its just a different unit with added functionality that people may or may not want or wish to pay for.

 

[ihamoitc2005]

No waiting

MS has already stated that games will ONLY EVER be on DVD-9.

Probably that this is true but also maybe they do not want buyer to wait for HD-DVD version.

 

[bobthebub]

MS has already stated that games will ONLY EVER be on DVD-9. An HD-DVD based unit will ONLY be for movie playback, the games will STILL be on DVD-9. Now if you want to argue that DVD-9 is not enough for this gen's games then go right ahead (but its been done ad nauseum on many other threads).

I purposefully didn't get into that argument, my opinion is that expanded capacity might be useful in some games, but that for the most part it won't matter, it will make a marketing difference through - SONY can shout "we have 7 times the capacity for games on discs" ( taking 50Gb BD vs 7Gb 360 discs) and MS can't sell HD-DVD using any arguments about game capacity.

Look at this way, Epson comes out with a photo printer for $200. 6 months later they come out with an all-in-one photo printer, copier, fax for $300. Does that make the Stand alone photo printer a 'disaster'? Does that mean Epson made a mistake with the $200 model or they were 'wrong'? No. They actually still sell stnad-alone photo printers. Its just a different unit with added functionality that people may or may not want or wish to pay for.

That's not really a valid comparison, Epson can supply the content (Ink Cartridges) and guarantee future supply, MS can't do that with HD-DVD, and as I stated it just tells the market that HD Video is desirable - Joe Bloggs listens, thinks, then wanders off and buys a PS3.

What I am really saying is that I completely agree with the basis of your argument (That's why I suggested MS think about putting BD into the 360), it just doesn't add up in the context of XBOX 360 and HD-DVD

 

[scooby_dooby]

If MS plays its cards right it can easily negate the BR advantage before it ever hits mainstream.

For example, they could introduce the BR-version of 360 next fall, right when PS3 makes it's US launch. It could even wait until x-mas 2007, because it will take at least that long until the HD players really start becoming desireable to the mainstream.

That will put the consoles on equal footing as far a HD-playback devices. It won't be useful for games, but it will still be equal for movie-playback which is the real selling point of BR. Also, MS has the option to adopt HD-DVD if that format manages to take off.

Or, if a true format war does take off, MS could go with some sort of hybrid drive in 2007.

It will be somewhat of a PR disaster if they don't give something to the early the adopters, or have some sort of trade-in plan. Customers will be upset because they paid a premium price for a crippled version of the hardware.

 

[expletive]

I purposefully didn't get into that argument, my opinion is that expanded capacity might be useful in some games, but that for the most part it won't matter, it will make a marketing difference through - SONY can shout "we have 7 times the capacity for games on discs" ( taking 50Gb BD vs 7Gb 360 discs) and MS can't sell HD-DVD using any arguments about game capacity.



That's not really a valid comparison, Epson can supply the content (Ink Cartridges) and guarantee future supply, MS can't do that with HD-DVD, and as I stated it just tells the market that HD Video is desirable - Joe Bloggs listens, thinks, then wanders off and buys a PS3.

What I am really saying is that I completely agree with the basis of your argument (That's why I suggested MS think about putting BD into the 360), it just doesn't add up in the context of XBOX 360 and HD-DVD

IF youre making the argument that BR will win, then make that one. But to say MS putting HD-DVD in a disaster for the 2 points you mentioned isnt making the argument.

 

[expletive]

If MS plays its cards right it can easily negate the BR advantage before it ever hits mainstream.

For example, they could introduce the BR-version of 360 next fall, right when PS3 makes it's US launch. It could even wait until x-mas 2007, because it will take at least that long until the HD players really start becoming desireable to the mainstream.

That will put the consoles on equal footing as far a HD-playback devices. It won't be useful for games, but it will still be equal for movie-playback which is the real selling point of BR. Also, MS has the option to adopt HD-DVD if that format manages to take off.

Or, if a true format war does take off, MS could go with some sort of hybrid drive in 2007.

It will be somewhat of a PR disaster if they don't give something to the early the adopters, or have some sort of trade-in plan. Customers will be upset because they paid a premium price for a crippled version of the hardware.

I dont know if MS is only trying to do it at this point but i wouldnt be surprised if theyre just solely positioning themselves against BR just for the FUD of it all, keep as many consumers on the sidelines for as long as possible.

 

[mckmas8808]

I dont know if MS is only trying to do it at this point but i wouldnt be surprised if theyre just solely positioning themselves against BR just for the FUD of it all, keep as many consumers on the sidelines for as long as possible.

Thankyou. Of course that's the reason why all this X360 and HD-DVD talk has happened.

 

[expletive]

Thankyou. Of course that's the reason why all this X360 and HD-DVD talk has happened.

I'm not ruling out that they dont want HD-DVD to 'win' anyway, just that they feel they 'win' if:

1. HD-DVD wins
2. No one wins

 

[bobthebub]

IF youre making the argument that BR will win, then make that one. .

Sorry, I thought I had already made that argument.

.... and may actually put people off buying cos BD is going to win and even if people don't think they want the HD movies they won't buy the Betamax version..

....if they could have dropped an update disc that enabled it, the HD-DVD would arise from the dead..

...360 buyers who if they are going to buy a device that can play HD video will prefer to buy the one with Studio support - PS3
.

...MS can't do that with HD-DVD, and as I stated it just tells the market that HD Video is desirable - Joe Bloggs listens, thinks, then wanders off and buys a PS3..

The whole thrust of my argument is that for MS to incorporate HD Disc based video playback in any way *adds* to Sony's chance of being dominant with PS3 and BD.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I think MS sees that HD-DVD is a suffiecient format for HD movies, and that if they can convince other companies of this fact, then they will ruin one of the biggest advantages of their competitor in the console sector. So they're giving it teh old college try.

That doesn't mean they will not support BR if it becomes teh format of choice, or that they will pre-emptively adopt HD-DVD before the format war has even been settled. Not a chance.

 

[zed]

xbox360 + HD-dvd is very unlikely, the reason is
most ppl believe blueray is most likely to triumph in the next gen format war, even if ms throw their considerable weight behind hd-dvd, right?
hd-dvd will be the modern equivilent of the beta in (beta vs vhs), years ago beta became a by-word for failure (technically it was better though), even when ppl pronounced beta they speak it with a groan.
having the xbox360 with a hd-dvd will taint the whole xbox brand
marketting is very important, the last thing ms want is for their pride and joy to be associated with the new beta

 

[expletive]

xbox360 + HD-dvd is very unlikely, the reason is
most ppl believe blueray is most likely to triumph in the next gen format war, even if ms throw their considerable weight behind hd-dvd, right?
hd-dvd will be the modern equivilent of the beta in (beta vs vhs), years ago beta became a by-word for failure (technically it was better though), even when ppl pronounced beta they speak it with a groan.
having the xbox360 with a hd-dvd will taint the whole xbox brand
marketting is very important, the last thing ms want is for their pride and joy to be associated with the new beta

Yep, i think MS firmly believes they dont need any next-gen HD optical format in the 360 to meet their sales goals. Whether or not they add a model later on that does have one is debateable but i agree with you that they dont think the NEED one.

 

[bobthebub]

i agree with you that they dont think the NEED one.

Could you possibly help me by explaining which part of Zed's post says anything about 360 sales not being impacted by a lack of next gen HD video playback.

(I am not trying to be confrontational I just can't think of any other way of putting my point)

 

[Bigus Dickus]

The only thing that bothers me at all about this whole PS3/BR/360/HD-DVD topic is what Sony has once again done to destroy a unified standard. Look what they did with the audio version... bucking the DVD-A conglomerate and going it on their own with SACD (which, I might add, is about the most ass-backward underperforming technology they could have brought to the table). Introducing SACD as a competitor to DVD-A has substantially helped in stalling the adoption of either, thus stalling the availability of media on either format as producers are unwilling to commit in the midst of a format war.

Now they are doing the same thing with HD video media. Years ago there was a big push to avoid the same format war that has damaged high fidelity music adoption, a push for everyone to get on the same page early with an HD video format. Sony played along only so long as it tickled their fancy. So we're going to have repeat with BR and HD-DVD battling it out, and once again slowing the widespread adoption of either.

Sorry for the rant. Has little to do with consoles I suppose. Just irks me what Sony continues to do.

 

[bobthebub]

The only thing that bothers me at all about this whole PS3/BR/360/HD-DVD topic is what Sony has once again done to destroy a unified standard.

A good point, and I don't intend suggesting SONY are the white knight here, but at the end of the day SONY and partners invested in coming up with some quite compelling hardware. The HD-DVD backers tried to push their own technology for the same reasons (they could make some good money down the line), it appears that SONY & co were prepared to go some way down the road towards unification but wanted to protect the investment they had made in the hardware side.

If the competition was SONY vs open standard I would go with open standard but it's one set of big corporations vs the other, SONY have made long term investments in building a media empire, if they hadn't made a great job of pushing BD (by investing in building the user base with PS3) the rest of the media world would have been only too happy to stuff them at the first opportunity (HD-DVD had more backers until PS3 was announced if you recall) It's capitalism!

 

[Titanio]

The only thing that bothers me at all about this whole PS3/BR/360/HD-DVD topic is what Sony has once again done to destroy a unified standard. Look what they did with the audio version... bucking the DVD-A conglomerate and going it on their own with SACD (which, I might add, is about the most ass-backward underperforming technology they could have brought to the table). Introducing SACD as a competitor to DVD-A has substantially helped in stalling the adoption of either, thus stalling the availability of media on either format as producers are unwilling to commit in the midst of a format war.

Now they are doing the same thing with HD video media. Years ago there was a big push to avoid the same format war that has damaged high fidelity music adoption, a push for everyone to get on the same page early with an HD video format. Sony played along only so long as it tickled their fancy. So we're going to have repeat with BR and HD-DVD battling it out, and once again slowing the widespread adoption of either.

Sorry for the rant. Has little to do with consoles I suppose. Just irks me what Sony continues to do.

The industry is overwhelming in its support of Blu-ray. In that regard, there is virtually a de facto standard now. I don't think it's Sony's position to be making concessions..

 

[Nicked]

Yeah its all Sony. Never mind the 160 other members of the BDA.

 

[dukmahsik]

i dont care if BD or HD DVD wins, i just dont want a format war

 

[London Geezer]

i dont care if BD or HD DVD wins, i just dont want a format war

The way things are going, i'm sorry to say the format war just got more bloody...