The next-generation: The camera and collision detection

The one problem I have with games today is bad cameras in games and bad collision detection. EA releases Madden every year, without an apparent improvement in collision detection. Players walking threw each is very annoying in a game that is striving for realism. Playing a game where the enemy when shot is partially covered by the wall you shot them next to.

The camera just as big an issue possibilly more so because of its connections to gameplay. A cousin of mine was playing Namco's Dead to Rights and at one point the camera was inside the third person characters head and you could see his eyes. I have had the experience of finding the camera getting stuck behind a wall.

So here's a question for you all.

Could these problems be solved in the next-generation through the use of more powerful hardware or better coding. Could a processor be implemented on the board that would be dedicated to the camera and collision detection?

I get the idea that developers today are just not that concerned about collision detection or putting much focus on the movement of the camera in videogames.

Focus on detail like this could be beneficial to gameplay mainly sports, action, and adventure games.
 
Ooh-videogames said:
The one problem I have with games today is bad cameras in games and bad collision detection. EA releases Madden every year, without an apparent improvement in collision detection. Players walking threw each is very annoying in a game that is striving for realism. Playing a game where the enemy when shot is partially covered by the wall you shot them next to.

The camera just as big an issue possibilly more so because of its connections to gameplay. A cousin of mine was playing Namco's Dead to Rights and at one point the camera was inside the third person characters head and you could see his eyes. I have had the experience of finding the camera getting stuck behind a wall.

So here's a question for you all.

Could these problems be solved in the next-generation through the use of more powerful hardware or better coding. Could a processor be implemented on the board that would be dedicated to the camera and collision detection?

I get the idea that developers today are just not that concerned about collision detection or putting much focus on the movement of the camera in videogames.

Focus on detail like this could be beneficial to gameplay mainly sports, action, and adventure games.

Yeah. AFAIK, the only reason collision detection is not done more realistically is a lack of CPU power. For example, UT2003 is capable of doing per-vertex collision detection, but it does so sparingly, as the CPU performance hit is insane. However, even UT2003's normal collision detection (which uses a lower-poly version of the model) is far and above most console games, which use simple bounding boxes for collisions. (hey - DoA3 even has a special move for Kasumi that is apparently "clip through your enemy")

Upcoming PC games like DOOM3 will employ per-poly collision detection for most objects. However, it may take much longer for this to happen on console (Xbox2 and PS3) because consoles traditionally have much less CPU power than PC.
 
The camera can be real problem, however as long as you don't get through the ground or bypass a wall, I don't really care about collision detection that much.
 
3D camera is a problem for now.

Until they fix it, though.. I'd say most 3D platformers (SMS, J&D, etc) would benefit from a more manual camera.

Full control for the user, baby!
 
Upcoming PC games like DOOM3 will employ per-poly collision detection for most objects.
I assume you are talking about polygon - to - polygon collisions?
Because per polygon collision detection with 'point to poly', 'sphere to poly', or 'box to poly', are rather commonly used nowadays (especially first two) in games regardless of platform.

However, it may take much longer for this to happen on console
Well, it may still be a rarity for some time to come, but I do know there's at least one PS2 title that uses poly to poly collision tests.

I'd also note that accurate collison detection alone does not necesserily prevent objects from temporarily crossing into one another - there are other issues involved.
 
Well, it may still be a rarity for some time to come, but I do know there's at least one PS2 title that uses poly to poly collision tests.
That would be MGS2, right?

Waaait a sec... You are not talking about your own game now, do you? ;)
 
I'd also note that accurate collison detection alone does not necesserily prevent objects from temporarily crossing into one another - there are other issues involved.

Please Explain... I'd like to hear more on this ( it might help me in the IGGS GBA project ), thanks :)
 
Blade said:
Until they fix it, though.. I'd say most 3D platformers (SMS, J&D, etc) would benefit from a more manual camera.

Full control for the user, baby!

Heh, SMS's camera very rarely moves on its own. You almost always have to use the C-stick and L to handle it on your own.

And...

Cyborg, Chozo Ghosts don't count, they go through things while they're still alive and when they die they "fall" backwards (and UPwards) and then burn away ;)
 
My impression was that good automated camera control isn't suffering because of CPU resources, rather than camera control habitually resulting as an afterthought to the rest of the game (or alternately, maybe current game engines are just not designed with camera control in mind such that it could be implemented with the desired finesse?). Bearing that in mind, I don't think it would necessarily improve just by virtue of higher-powered next gen hardware. Game developers simply need to devote more serious attention to it in games they are making now.

I tell ya what I hate more than bad camera movement. I hate how bad camera movement translates into awkward directional control while you are attempting to move your character (potentially in a danger situation that requires quick, decisive manuevering). Nothing is more frustrating when forward suddenly becomes backward and left becomes right, making you do the stupidest of things like running right back into the room you were trying to get out of or running right into a fire that you were purposely trying to avoid. That REALLY pisses me off. There's got to be a more intuitive way to meld directional control consistently with camera movements (or maybe I just have happened upon too many examples where this has been done in the worst way possible).
 
I wonder if PS2 games skimp more on z-buffer accuracy compared with Xbox, DC, and GC games because of its small display memory situation?
 
Randycat99: The N64 game Hybrid Heaven used an interesting system for quick cinematic camera movement (the game's camera was generally behind Diaz/Slater, but sometimes it'd move on its own).

When the camera changed, the relative movement control wouldn't switch right away - it would 'rotate' to the new camera position.

So one part in particular involves running down a hall, then suddenly the camera flips 180º to the front of your character - but 'up' on the control stick would still move the character in the same direction, now 'down' on the screen, for a short time, to allow the player to adjust to the new camera angle.
 
It strikes me that there is no really good way to good about it. I've experienced some implementations like what you described and still had problems. Since some games are "one way" and other games are the "other way", I always end up reflexively doing the wrong thing when awkward movements like that show up. I see the camera rotating, so my thumb moves the stick around to keep "pulling" the character in the direction relative to the character. However, this can cause the same problem if the game waits to toggle the direction in anticipation that you would keep the stick in the same position to continue going in that direction. I just wish there was some really clever way to ensure "intended" control that transcends all of the above switcharoo issues.
 
Until they fix it, though.. I'd say most 3D platformers (SMS, J&D, etc) would benefit from a more manual camera.

Both SMS and J&D actually do have a manual camera that you can use if you choose to (just move the right analog stick). Camera in J&D does a pretty damn good job even if left alone, though. It's probably the best camera in a platform game that I've seen.
 
Tag:

You almost always have to use the C-stick and L to handle it on your own.

Duh. I said manual, not automatic. :)

Marc: Yeah, most 3D platformers do have a manual camera option.

Until they perfect it in such games, I want the camera to be more manual.. ala SMS and J&D among others.
 
Blade said:
Duh. I said manual, not automatic. :)

Well, the way you said it before made it sound like SMS and J&D were examples of games that needed more manual camera controls...

This sounds much better and is very true:
Until they perfect it in such games, I want the camera to be more manual.. ala SMS and J&D among others.
 
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