The new PS3 sales pitch: Better gaming, better technology, better value

[swanlee]

I think you guys are putting way to much stock in Sony brand loyalty. Yes there is a lot of brand loyalty to sony but not when it's twice as much as a competeing product that also is gaining mindshare with consumers.

I don't think average consumers are going to care about the added value of the ps3, they are going to see $499-599 VS $299-399, they are going to see that both consoles have nearly identical graphics and that over 90% of games are going to be on both systems and each one has it distinct system selling exclusives.

Average users are not going to be able to justify an Extra 200$ just to buy the Sony name.
Honestly I predict they will not sell out at launch and regardless of what the sony Execs think they cannot sell a console without any games.

They cannot simplify a reason a consumer should spend 200$ to play their games, over 90% of whihc will be onthe 360 anyway.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Shouldn't there be a significant sales peak for xbox360 soon.
As the PS3 price point is now declared, those who've waited on the fence and scared off by the steep price should make up their minds and buy their console, which by logic alone should be xbox360. Or are we waiting for the Christmas sales, or Wii (2007?)?

If the PS3 price is having a significant effect, it should be very visible in xbox360 sales already.
If I was MS, I'd put out the latest shipped figures and PR the hell out of it, with a remark that the spike in sal... shipments is the result of PS3 price announcement and E3 showings.... I think we'll soon see something

 

[JasonLD]

I think you guys are putting way to much stock in Sony brand loyalty. Yes there is a lot of brand loyalty to sony but not when it's twice as much as a competeing product that also is gaining mindshare with consumers.

I don't think average consumers are going to care about the added value of the ps3, they are going to see $499-599 VS $299-399, they are going to see that both consoles have nearly identical graphics and that over 90% of games are going to be on both systems and each one has it distaint system selling exclusives.

Average users are not going to be able to justify an Extra 200$ just to buy the Sony name.
Honestly I predict they will not sell out at launch and regardless of what the sony Execs think they cannot sell a console without any games.

They cannot simplify a reason a consumer should spend 200$ to play their games, over 90% of whihc will be onthe 360 anyway.

Well, when the added value is HD movie player, average consumers will not ignore it..especially when the price difference is "only" $200.

 

[swanlee]

"Well, when the added value is HD movie player,"

Nope the average consumer doesn't care yet, just like the average consumer didn't care about DVD-A or SACD. Also sony isn't marketing the PS3 as a cheap Blu-Ray player, they probably need to though as there is no gaming related reason to buy a PS3 over the 360 especially for 200$ extra.

Also factor in stand alone HD-DVD players are already 500$ which is less expensive the the Premium PS3. The PS3 will struggle with it's price point, it has serious competition that is alot cheaper and is also going to be adding an HD-DVD solution.

There is no way anyone can logically look at the facts and think sony is going to run away with this gen simply based on brand loyalty.

 

[Titanio]

Are you kidding me?
If you only have a 720p/1080i you'd still purchase a $1000 player vs a $500 knowing full well that it has 0 benefits?

Sorry, I must have misunderstood you. No, you wouldn't pay the $500 extra if you can't take advantage of the 1080p.

Isn't that what I just said??

Not quite. There's a subtle difference between not being supply limited anymore and being in a position where you're uncomfortable with sales.

I'm talking about the ability of the mainstream consumer to justify a $400+ purchase of a game machine

They don't and won't. Again, that market will be there in a couple of years.

and stating that the desireability of BR is nowhere near what it was for DVD

We'll see. I think for most with a HDTV it'll be relevant. That'll be most of the market starting out...where will the market be in terms of HDTV later? The numbers certainly won't shrink, whether the proportions do we'll have to wait and see.

 

[JasonLD]

Nope the average consumer doesn't care yet, just like the average consumer didn't care about DVD-A or SACD. Also sony isn't marketing the PS3 as a cheap Blu-Ray player, they probably need to though as there is no gaming related reason to buy a PS3 over the 360 especially for 200$ extra..

Don't even try to compare HD movies with DVD-A or SACD..HD movies are far more desirable product than any of those audio formats.

Also factor in stand alone HD-DVD players are already 500$ which is less expensive the the Premium PS3. The PS3 will struggle with it's price point, it has serious competition that is alot cheaper and is also going to be adding an HD-DVD solution.

$500 HDDVD player vs $600 PS3 premium...what are you going to get?? For only $100 more, you are getting LOT more with PS3 premium...did I mention it plays games too?

There is no way anyone can logically look at the facts and think sony is going to run away with this gen simply based on brand loyalty.

Are you basically saying Sony is simply charging $200 more because they can just rely on brand loyalty? Sure, Sony is risking a lot with PS3, but PS3 is actually a product that justifies that price tag...it is up to consumers, but I am not really that pessimistic.

 

[scooby_dooby]

The problem is the possibility of a one or two year gap where PS3 will be out of reach for mainstream consumers, and they will have a perfectly affordable 360 sitting on the shelves waiting to be purchased.

Obviously at SOME point in the future PS3 will reach a pricepoint that will appeal to that market, but until that happens, however long it takes, MS will continue to errode at the marketshare and mindshare among the casual gamers, and the inclusion of BR is not enough to make up for the difference in price. Most people simply don't care, whereas in 2000 everyone wanted DVD.

I'm under the opnion that Sony simply has too much to lose, and is too smart a company to be delaying pricecuts too long. I think we will see a very competitive price by holiday 2007 at the latest. Otherwise they risk giving up a lead to 360 that they'll have a very hard time gaining back.

 

[Titanio]

The problem is the possibility of a one or two year gap where PS3 will be out of reach for mainstream consumers, and they will have a perfectly affordable 360 sitting on the shelves waiting to be purchased.

There's a 25% cost difference between the systems (at least if you look at the 'credible' options as seemingly highlighted by the market at this point - very few seem to want a 360 core) . It'll be interesting to see how that scales going forward, but it'll also be interesting to see how the HDTV penetration in that market scales and how that will affect the relevance of the value proposed by both systems - and both are actually affected by this, just to differing degrees perhaps. Below a certain point, a price difference may not be too much of a weapon depending on perception of the systems.

 

[JasonLD]

The problem is the possibility of a one or two year gap where PS3 will be out of reach for mainstream consumers, and they will have a perfectly affordable 360 sitting on the shelves waiting to be purchased.

Obviously at SOME point in the future PS3 will reach a pricepoint that will appeal to that market, but until that happens, however long it takes, MS will continue to errode at the marketshare and mindshare among the casual gamers, and the inclusion of BR is not enough to make up for the difference in price. Most people simply don't care, whereas in 2000 everyone wanted DVD.

I'm under the opnion that Sony simply has too much to lose, and is too smart a company to be delaying pricecuts too long. I think we will see a very competitive price by holiday 2007 at the latest. Otherwise they risk giving up a lead to 360 that they'll have a very hard time gaining back.

It will be all about supply and demand...if price becomes too much a problem, then say hello to price cut..simple as that. I think Sony's main concern is not abount battling market share with MS, but whether BR will become the de-facto leader of HD-movie format..simply because lot more money to be made with BR format than just video game itself. If risking market share can bring you victory in format war, then it would be no-brainer choice.

 

[mckmas8808]

The problem is the possibility of a one or two year gap where PS3 will be out of reach for mainstream consumers, and they will have a perfectly affordable 360 sitting on the shelves waiting to be purchased.

Obviously at SOME point in the future PS3 will reach a pricepoint that will appeal to that market, but until that happens, however long it takes, MS will continue to errode at the marketshare and mindshare among the casual gamers, and the inclusion of BR is not enough to make up for the difference in price. Most people simply don't care, whereas in 2000 everyone wanted DVD.

I'm under the opnion that Sony simply has too much to lose, and is too smart a company to be delaying pricecuts too long. I think we will see a very competitive price by holiday 2007 at the latest. Otherwise they risk giving up a lead to 360 that they'll have a very hard time gaining back.

But can and will MS take advantage of the price difference? So far I think they have done a bad to decent job taking advantage of launching first. Just because there's a price difference doesn't mean they will automatically take full advantage of it.

 

[blakjedi]

I dont think price has very much to do with this argument as it relates to Sony.

- Because Sony is the brand leader in the marketplace
- Because Sony's catalogue is deep
- Because Sony's console has as least as much power as x360
- Because most of Sony's userbase arent fans but rather were introduced to gaming through the playstation brand

All those reasons allow Sony to set the expectations of the marketplace in a way that favors them. Much like gas and movie prices are going up and MORE people continue buy gas in the same amounts and continue to goto the movies (or pay for cable television) people are probably expecting to pay more for a high end piece of electronic equipment which both the PS3 and the x360 are. As much as I hate to say it, notwithstanding the online punters, Sony may be doing itself a favor by introducing at this price point.

For all intents and purposes the technology of both systems are within the same generation and with no real clear technological advantage for one or the other. However being market leader, introducing later, it makes it seem as if their tech is newer and better. It doesn't have to be, it just has to look that way.

Acert's complex breakdown is nice but very tedious for a consumer.In the end it should look more like a checklist"

"PS3 - $599
Media: Bluray (1080P video!) (included)
CPU: Cell (8 processors!)
Storage: 60 GB HDD included
Connectivity: Wifi - included
Gigabit Ethernet- included
Extras: 6 media slots, Bluetooth, motion sensing controllers (included)
PS Live: Free (included)


XB360 - $399
Media: Regular old DVD (720p) Add on HD-DVD $200 (1080p N/A)
CPU: 3 processors (compared to 8 in PS3!)
Storage: 20 GB HDD (U get 3x more in PS3)
Connectivity: Wifi - Extra ($100)
Ethernet 100 Mbit - (U get 10X faster in PS3)
Extras: 2 USB ports and....1 wired controller
Xbox Live: $60

Real price: $749 and still not equal to what you get in PS3!

Compare and save!"

In the end if only half the people who bout a Playstation in the past could afford an new 2006 PS3 (40 million) and Sony could have them available at launch they would in my opinion still have shortages...

And I'm an "Xbot"!

 

[Sis]

But can and will MS take advantage of the price difference? So far I think they have done a bad to decent job taking advantage of launching first. Just because there's a price difference doesn't mean they will automatically take full advantage of it.

Of course not. No one is arguing "automatic" anything. All of these discussions are about the benefits and weaknesses. Similarly, suggesting that $200 barrier is important does not mean "launching at under $200 is automatic victory."

 

[scooby_dooby]

But can and will MS take advantage of the price difference? So far I think they have done a bad to decent job taking advantage of launching first. Just because there's a price difference doesn't mean they will automatically take full advantage of it.

MS is bringing production up to 1.5mill/month by the end of this year, I'll let you be the judge of whether that is taking advantage of the situation

 

[McHuj]

"PS3 - $599
Media: Bluray (1080P video!) (included)
CPU: Cell (8 processors!)
Storage: 60 GB HDD included
Connectivity: Wifi - included
Gigabit Ethernet- included
Extras: 6 media slots, Bluetooth, motion sensing controllers (included)
PS Live: Free (included)


XB360 - $399
Media: Regular old DVD (720p) Add on HD-DVD $200 (1080p N/A)
CPU: 3 processors (compared to 8 in PS3!)
Storage: 20 GB HDD (U get 3x more in PS3)
Connectivity: Wifi - Extra ($100)
Ethernet 100 Mbit - (U get 10X faster in PS3)
Extras: 2 USB ports and....1 wired controller
Xbox Live: $60

Real price: $749 and still not equal to what you get in PS3!

Except this all an assumption that MS is going to keep those prices the same as soon as PS3 hits. I'm willing to bet that the MS Wifi adapter, wireless controllers, and HD are very high margin parts that are providing lists of revenue at the moment. There is no present competition, so why shouldn't they charge the most they can. I bet they could significantly cut the price of them, while boosting the HD drive size, if push came to shove with Sony.

What if MS did this for Winter'06 (Maybe Spring 07)
XBOX: $299 with 100GB HD
WIFI: $39
LIVE: $19 (Some ad support)

~$360 or $560 if you want the HD/DVD add on.

What if MS announces a downloadable HD movie service over Live? You have got to believe the MS will soon enter the downloadable media content market soon.

A service similar to Netflicks, you can "rent" two movies at a time. You could probably download a movie overnight. Never worry about disk formats, returning things, going to the store. Who needs a next gen format then? Convience wins, even if the WMV movie is more highly compressed. The average joe won't care, his TV isn't even calibrated to get the best picture.

In my opinion, MS is in a real good position if they can deliver a multitude of quality games between Xmas'06 and Xmas'07 and Sony cannot significantly cut price by xmas'07. In my personal opinion, if Sony cannot get the PS3 in $350 range by xmas'07, they'll be in trouble in NA. I expect the premium (or perhaps the only SKU) XBOX by then to be in the $250 range.

 

[blakjedi]

Except this all an assumption that MS is going to keep those prices the same as soon as PS3 hits. I'm willing to bet that the MS Wifi adapter, wireless controllers, and HD are very high margin parts that are providing lists of revenue at the moment. There is no present competition, so why shouldn't they charge the most they can. I bet they could significantly cut the price of them, while boosting the HD drive size, if push came to shove with Sony.

What if MS did this for Winter'06 (Maybe Spring 07)
XBOX: $299 with 100GB HD
WIFI: $39
LIVE: $19 (Some ad support)

~$360 or $560 if you want the HD/DVD add on.

What if MS announces a downloadable HD movie service over Live? You have got to believe the MS will soon enter the downloadable media content market soon.

A service similar to Netflicks, you can "rent" two movies at a time. You could probably download a movie overnight. Never worry about disk formats, returning things, going to the store. Who needs a next gen format then? Convience wins, even if the WMV movie is more highly compressed. The average joe won't care, his TV isn't even calibrated to get the best picture.

In my opinion, MS is in a real good position if they can deliver a multitude of quality games between Xmas'06 and Xmas'07 and Sony cannot significantly cut price by xmas'07. In my personal opinion, if Sony cannot get the PS3 in $350 range by xmas'07, they'll be in trouble in NA. I expect the premium (or perhaps the only SKU) XBOX by then to be in the $250 range.

There are a couple of problems with the cuts you suggest ($20 live after I paid $60!! Does that mean I now get three years) but I agree that MS has leeway to do things you suggest (I hope)

 

[overclocked]

Guys cant we stop playing this game, PS3 is out soon and you can all base your opinions on fact then.
Myself is looking for a couple of games for it, ofcourse its fun and exiting also that it is the most "powerfull" console.

 

[Sis]

Guys cant we stop playing this game, PS3 is out soon and you can all base your opinions on fact then.
Myself is looking for a couple of games for it, ofcourse its fun and exiting also that it is the most "powerfull" console.

If all we dealt in was facts, the discourse would be mighty boring. :smile:

I for one cannot wait to see what the PS3 can and can't do, in terms of market penetration. One thing I do know is that Sony has broken the rules before, so all my naysaying may be misplaced. But if I always took a sure bet, it wouldn't be terribly interesting.

 

[cthellis42]

Despite the talk in here, the fact remains that over 80% of all consoles sold are sold after the system drops to below $200 in price, and that isn't going to happen anytime soon with a $500 base price PS3.

Can people stop quoting this misnomer? That hasn't been at all true of the PS2, and probably isn't of the Xbox overall either, but I don't have the data to check. (Unless someone else knows a good source, which I would appreciate!)

At the very least, challenge my numbers or actually TALK about the matter as opposed to referring to "$199" as unassailable fact. I certainly claim no absolute accuracy in either my numbers or my analysis. ^_^

 

[Kolgar]

Anecdotal evidence sucks, I know, but personally - PlayStation's been my preferred platform of choice for 10 years now, and what I've seen from Sony so far has both confused and angered me.

Just like that, I've made the decision that Xbox360 will be my primary next-gen game console for the foreseeable future.

It's not about system power. It may not even be about the PlayStation brand or Sony's world-beating stable of third parties. To the casual gamer, it comes down to value. And I think most casual gamers are going to find more "value" in X360 and Wii no matter how much great technology Sony packs into PS3.

Five-hundred dollars is simply too damn much for a game console. Come March 2007, Sony had better be prepared to drop the price significantly (and burn early adopters) - or Microsoft and Nintendo are going to eat their lunch.

I, for one, welcome our geeky new overlords.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Can people stop quoting this misnomer? That hasn't been at all true of the PS2, and probably isn't of the Xbox overall either, but I don't have the data to check. (Unless someone else knows a good source, which I would appreciate!)

At the very least, challenge my numbers or actually TALK about the matter as opposed to referring to "$199" as unassailable fact. I certainly claim no absolute accuracy in either my numbers or my analysis. ^_^

You're way off the mark.
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=763497&postcount=780