The LittleBigPlanet pre-release Saga

[zed]

Define taxing?

sorry i worded that wrong, u are right i can imagine levels can be made fiendishly difficult by designers.
i meant not taxing like ninzel saiz, as in cause of the camera method (~2.5d) + lack of into the screen depth, theres gonna be a known number of vertices onscreen at anyone time, most likely an order of magnitude less than a fully 3d game, which means each vertice can be afforded a lot more CPU/GPU work

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I have watched s many vids as I think are available and seen that varierty of obstacles and such but as far as depth of gameplay I don't know if it goes deeper than your traditional Mario 2d style platformer. I'm basing this off the belief that the only three gameplay mechanics are run,jump and push/pull,no more than most 2d platformers.

That's true of all platformers though, and why would you want or expect LBP to be different! The Special Sauce in the platforming aspect is building your own additions to levels to solve problems. Banjo Threeie has players building vehicles to solve problems, it's Special Sauce. LBP has similar, creating object solutions to problems. So even in its primitive form of run, jump, push/pull, it's offering something pretty unique to platformers.

What would you like to see added to the gameplay mechanics?

 

[Lucid_Dreamer]

IGN: "Legitimately floored" by LBP

I didn't see this posted in this thread. IGN's hands-on preview of LBP.

You're welcome -- and encouraged -- to read this preview, but the fact remains that you'll never understand the jaw-dropping power of LittleBigPlanet until you play it. How do I know this?

Because I just played it for the first time, and I'm legitimately floored.

I was in the audience at GDC 2007 when Phil Harrison introduced the world to Sackboy, and I thought LBP looked like fun but didn't go off the deep end for it. There's been more than a few events since then where LBP and I have shared the same space, but something or some project always kept me from playing it. So, my excitement for the project stayed in the "Gee, whiz. That looks like fun stage."

Today, at Sony's Pre-E3 event, I saw the light.

He seemed to be genuinely surprised by how much he enjoyed it.

 

[ninzel]

That's true of all platformers though,

yep

why would you want or expect LBP to be different!

I don't think I have ever asked for it to be.

The Special Sauce in the platforming aspect is building your own additions to levels to solve problems.

Absolutely,and I hope that the user created levels turn out to be good. Or at the very least there are enough maps released by the devs to keep the game going over the long run. Do we know how long the game is or how many levels there will be initialy released with the game?

. LBP has similar, creating object solutions to problems. So even in its primitive form of run, jump, push/pull, it's offering something pretty unique to platformers.

Yep again.I don't think I've seen a game offer this kind of creative power.

What would you like to see added to the gameplay mechanics?

Nothing.
When I said the gameplay mechanics weren't anything special it was not meant as a dig,just a realization of the facts. I'm fine with the gameplay mechanics as they are.I think I said that.
I'm not sure what your trying to get me to change my mind about or realize.

I guess the difference in our opinion comes down to my faith in the user created levels,and whether that will turn LBP into a revolutionary game with lot's of legs, or a game that had lot's of potential but didn't live up to it.

Edit:Any mention of being able to play with audio in the game or add in audio.
I've wanted to design a platforming game that is based on melody and tempo.
For example all throughout a level there would be certain objects/platforms that when you hit would play a short melody or peice of music.At the top of your screen would be a tempo bar. If you play the game with your character moving through the world at the correct pace/speed each time you hit the cetain points the peice of music would play in tune depending on your pace. IF you play the entire level at the correct pace the smaller peices of music would be strung together to play an entire peice of song. Each level would be themed to a certain genre of music.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

...I don't think I have ever asked for it to be.
...
When I said the gameplay mechanics weren't anything special it was not meant as a dig,just a realization of the facts. I'm fine with the gameplay mechanics as they are.I think I said that.
I'm not sure what your trying to get me to change my mind about or realize.

Maybe i misunderstood you when you wrote -

The mechanics seem rather simple,so I don't see the fuss over this game from a gameplay standpoint.

I thought you were wanting something different in the gameplay department.

I guess the difference in our opinion comes down to my faith in the user created levels,and whether that will turn LBP into a revolutionary game with lot's of legs, or a game that had lot's of potential but didn't live up to it.

I know some levels will be good, 'coz I'm gonna make 'em!

Edit:Any mention of being able to play with audio in the game or add in audio.

The interview on Media Molecule's blog with the sound designer had him saying it was very easy to incorporate sound. I imagine there are sound objects, perhaps one for soundtrack and others that can be pasted onto objects.

I've wanted to design a platforming game that is based on melody and tempo.
For example all throughout a level there would be certain objects/platforms that when you hit would play a short melody or peice of music.

That might be possible. Dunno. Depends how exactly the sound system works. The guy said it was easy, not powerful!

I doubt your idea is doable as is, but you may be able to create something similar with a rhythm backtrack and components that sound as you proceed. As you say though, not much is known about sound.

 

[patsu]

Hands-on impression from Kotaku: http://kotaku.com/5009521/creating-my-own-level-in-littlebigplanets

I, for instance, created a blood-red doll with devil horns, a devil tail, a stitch for an eye, a patch over the other, a pointed goatee, a shock of long hair and a puppet on his left hand. (Later I discovered that you can use the game's control to have your rag doll open and close the mouth of the puppet on his hand.)

Evans stuck to a simpler looking doll, but then placed a piece of cardboard on his head, like a mask, and used a PS3 camera to take a picture of my head, which he proceeded to stamp onto the piece of cardboard, so the doll had my smiling face.

The level, it turns out, was painfully difficult, so difficult in fact that Evans was growing increasingly frustrated trying to get to the finish line. Nothing feels better than frustrating a game designer with your diabolic game design... nothing.

We ended up going way over the amount of time I really supposed to be on the game, as the two of us kept vying to make it up the rock construct without either falling on the flaming tree or getting shot into the ice blocks.

Finally I managed to reach the summit and the race was over.

Evans reminded me that while user-created and shared maps are a big part of the game, they're certainly not the only part. In fact, LittleBigPlanet is going to ship with it's own robust, story-driven campaign which can be played solo or with friends.

 

[upnorthsox]

The level, it turns out, was painfully difficult, so difficult in fact that Evans was growing increasingly frustrated trying to get to the finish line. Nothing feels better than frustrating a game designer with your diabolic game design... nothing.

Ha! Ok to derail this thread a bit, I absolutely love Folklore but if I could get its game designer on a LBP level I created I'd have those fricken birds pecking the stuffing out of his little sackboy the whole level. Justice/revenge would be sweet! Anyone else?

 

[Cornsnake]

They could do that but they probably want to make money.

May make more sense for them economically to collect a whole bunch of new tools and capabilities and package them for sequels.

They will probably get ideas from the community, as they come up against limits on the kind of levels they can create and clamor for such and such capabilities.

They could also do the same thing as Singstar and Buzz have done and make versions that target a specific genre. For example a RPG version that allows you to make and record cutscenes. Add a top-down view to make a world map and gates to transfer you to a different level to so you can make dungens. Or even a 3D shooter version. The step to 3D may be big but once people get used to the basic tools it should be easier. And there's always people that want more freedom to create things and anyone can enjoy the results.

All these idea's are making me very eager to play the game already. I think it could end up being very addicting.

 

[Terarrim]

Do we know how long the game is or how many levels there will be initialy released with the game?

I am sure I read several times in various interviews (of which there have been many) that there would be 50 MM designed levels being shiped with the game.

 

[mister slim]

Nothing.
When I said the gameplay mechanics weren't anything special it was not meant as a dig,just a realization of the facts. I'm fine with the gameplay mechanics as they are.I think I said that.

The mechanics for a sackboy interacting with the world is simple; Sackboys can jump or grab. The mechanics for objects in the world to interact with sackboys or other objects are quite complex. I think it's oversimplifying to reduce the gameplay mechanics to just what the sackboy can do though, as simple interactions like pulling a lever can have very different gameplay results depending on how the level is constructed.

 

[ninzel]

The mechanics for a sackboy interacting with the world is simple; Sackboys can jump or grab. The mechanics for objects in the world to interact with sackboys or other objects are quite complex. I think it's oversimplifying to reduce the gameplay mechanics to just what the sackboy can do though, as simple interactions like pulling a lever can have very different gameplay results depending on how the level is constructed.

I hate to argue over small points because I agree with the idea of your post,but I would throw interactive and non-interactive things like levers and other objects , under the heading of level design.

 

[_phil_]

i think that as it is there is a lot of room for a whole lot of emergent fun.

 

[patsu]

I believe, where user generated content is concerned, their objectives will be a lot more varied. They don't aim to be fun all the time. Instead, a level may be useful, informative, funny, helpful (as a guide/template), and so on.

The same goes for the LUA programs in PS Home (when they get around to release it).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Gamespot's Start/Select programme has a couple of interviews from 5 mins in. LBP is being developed by a team of ~25 people, and the 5 founders were around for less than year when they first announced at GDC!

For those worried about gameplay seeing this as a create-a-thon, producer Pete Smith iterates that he didn't want a game that was artsy-fartsy creativity and no fun to play, and Alex Evans repeats that when they approached Sony, Pete Smith said, as a gamer, if there isn't a great core gameplay experience he wasn't interested - he started with Play in the Play, Create, Share concept.

Gameplay wise there's the game running in the background, and there's a nice example of the lever-based puzzling. I'm also eyeing that flame effect suspiciously. It's cloned between two beds of hot coals at the start, but the one on the right appears to react to the movement of the platform, as if it's generating wind. If that's actually a fluid effect modelling, it's a fabulous special effect!

 

[patsu]

My only wish for this game is the controller choice. Make it mouse compatible, PS Eye savvy, or even VCR remote controller compatible please. Whatever it takes to simplify the input. Then spread the user-generated content to the Internet so that PC users, Mac users, cellphone users can watch them.

It is probably different from what the LBP creators have in mind. But I think it would be impactful and worthwhile.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

My only wish for this game is the controller choice. Make it mouse compatible, PS Eye savvy, or even VCR remote controller compatible please. Whatever it takes to simplify the input.

There are two buttons used to play, jump and grab. Arms can be waved with sticks and the head moved with controller angle. How much simpler can you get?!

Then spread the user-generated content to the Internet so that PC users, Mac users, cellphone users can watch them.

Perhaps it's no coincidence Sony have introduced the ability to save and export YouTube footage from games

 

[patsu]

There are two buttons used to play, jump and grab. Arms can be waved with sticks and the head moved with controller angle. How much simpler can you get?!

Do away with the controller. Many friends feel a little lost the moment I hand them one.


EDIT:
Wow, when will they stop !

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008...ig-planet-details-including-how-enemies-work/

Evans said the game will ship with five or six artificial intelligence brains. He wouldn’t tell me what the AI behaviors would be, but explained that a “LBP” user would be able to apply them to their creations in the game’s editor. Whether or not the AI brains will drive your creations effectively depends on your designs. For example… did you put wheels on the giant attack-llama?

“Little Big Planet” users can place sound objects in the levels they create. The object Evans showed me was a little speaker. We were able to attach it to a block that was resting at the beginning of a level we were making. You can assign music that will play from that speaker when a user’s character walks past it. The music from that speaker can be set to play from any point in the track. I proposed an idea to Evans that he said was 100% do-able: I could line a level with speakers, one set up every few steps — and set them all to play the same song, but queued up from different parts. Doing this, I could make it so that if a player ran through my level at a certain pace, he or she would hear the song play perfectly. Running at the wrong pace would cause the player to hear the song play in a choppy fashion.

Better than that: you can make the blueprints a collectible item in the levels you create. Better still: you can associate such objects with leaderboard requirements. So I can challenge the world to score a certain number of points in a level I’ve made and then automatically reward anyone who achieves that mark with a trophy object that I made myself. I wonder what I could force people to receive if they play my level poorly…

^^^ There ! They have already implemented user-generated trophies. Hey "Miraculous" Molecule, let the trophies flow outside LBP (e.g., in PS Home and on Internet). Use the metadata fields of JPEG and movies files to encode game specific info. This way, we won't lose all the important details about how and where people received the trophies when we reimport the trophies.

 

[ninzel]

I guess my music idea wasn't so original after all.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Do away with the controller.

How do you play a game without a controller?

 

[Terarrim]

How do you play a game without a controller?

In this case the all new plush motion sensing sackboy handpuppet!!!!