That RDNA 1.8 Consoles Rumor *spawn*

[smithg]

I already thought about the Mandela effect here because I'm sure I recalled the 1.9

Wonder when the counter reaches 1.0

I’ve heard that because of an EU regulation that the PS5 will ship with RDNA 1.65 in Europe. The sliced off RDNA will be donated to science.

 

[zupallinere]

How would a pro model work for either device?

it would basically have to model nvidia's setup I feel. Tensor Cores its going to be a requirement. There's just not enough bandwidth to keep feeding more compute. HBM is a possibility, but that's not ready for mainstream consumer consumption yet.

So you don't believe there will be interest in advances in machine learning at the very least from MS if not Sony? There seems to be quite a buzz around it WRT VRS and such.
Also is ray tracing something that won't be changing all that much for AMD so that whatever RDNA 2 does is going to be basically the same with RDNA3 etc?
There is plenty of chatter about how RT and ML are going to be boosting Series X I find it a bit hard to think that in 4 to 8 years there won't be advances that MS isn't going to want to incorporate.
Sony said the Pro was to stop folks from migrating to PCs so is that pressure not going to be that strong with Sony in the next 4 to 8 years or is it just that Sony will be putting out so many PC titles that increasing the power of the PS5 isn't going to be worth it?

 

[zupallinere]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1287254188808785920

The guy was principal engineer at Sony for the PS5 and he said Moore Law is Dead is not a good channel.

That is quite a slap down :smile:
Well he should probably drop Red Gaming Tech if the whole RDNA3 thing from Moore's Law is Dead is an issue since with this update RGT
...
Playstation 5 GPU Is Enhanced RDNA 2 - Analysis & Exclusive Info - YouTube

...
has already laid out that RDNA3 stuff is in the PS5 as well as VRS which seems to be controversial as well.
Seems like MLID wasn't going out on that much of a limb WRT claiming some RDNA3 stuff from that perspective.
Still this is the kind of low grade drama that drives clicks one way or the other.
To quote Feynman "what ever keeps them out of law school"

 

[Jay]

How would a pro model work for either device?

it would basically have to model nvidia's setup I feel. Tensor Cores its going to be a requirement. There's just not enough bandwidth to keep feeding more compute. HBM is a possibility, but that's not ready for mainstream consumer consumption yet.

4 years from now
RDNA3 based,
faster ssd,
zen 3.
Who knows about memory, but let's say bit more and more bandwidth.
Or some combination of all that.
Sounds like a nice upgrade to me.
Possibly some tensor type cores.

20TF+ ?

The upcoming gen is balanced enough that games should scale pretty easily /well.
Who would that new console be for:
People with 8K displays
Who want the best
Have the itch to buy something (disposable income)

 

[smithg]

4 years from now
The upcoming gen is balanced enough that games should scale pretty easily /well.
Who would that new console be for:
People with 8K displays
Who want the best
Have the itch to buy something (disposable income)

I would be happy for PS5 and Series X resolution and frame rate targets to slide down lower over time and for console refreshes in 4ish years to renew a 4k60 target. Seems like a good upgrade path this gen to allow graphics to advance.

 

[Jay]

I would be happy for PS5 and Series X resolution and frame rate targets to slide down lower over time and for console refreshes in 4ish years to renew a 4k60 target. Seems like a good upgrade path this gen to allow graphics to advance.

I originally put in bit about rolling gen, but yea, that's also a good result of having a balanced systems coming out.

 

[disco_]

So the theory is that Sony has stuff in their gpu that wont launch in a flagship amd part until 2022 ? I find that very hard to believe. IF that was the case why would AMD bother with RDNA 2 when they could just produce the sony rdna chip on its own and release it

Is either console's chip suitable for desktop usage?

 

[eastmen]

Is either console's chip suitable for desktop usage?

as a gpu ? Remove the zen stuff from it and slap it on a graphics card and call it a day ? Double all the units and then your cooking with fire right ? After all both consoles are pcs

 

[zupallinere]

4 years from now
RDNA3 based,
faster ssd,
zen 3.
Who knows about memory, but let's say bit more and more bandwidth.
Or some combination of all that.
Sounds like a nice upgrade to me.
Possibly some tensor type cores.

20TF+ ?

The upcoming gen is balanced enough that games should scale pretty easily /well.
Who would that new console be for:
People with 8K displays
Who want the best
Have the itch to buy something (disposable income)

Since Native 4K is such a big thing why wouldn't Native 8K be as well?

 

[Rootax]

Since Native 4K is such a big thing why wouldn't Native 8K be as well?

With dlss 2.0 which can do better (or as good as) than native 4k, I believe even native 4k is not a golden goal anymore, as long as good reconstruction techniques can do better job with better performances.

 

[chris1515]

That is quite a slap down :smile:
Well he should probably drop Red Gaming Tech if the whole RDNA3 thing from Moore's Law is Dead is an issue since with this update RGT
...
Playstation 5 GPU Is Enhanced RDNA 2 - Analysis & Exclusive Info - YouTube

...
has already laid out that RDNA3 stuff is in the PS5 as well as VRS which seems to be controversial as well.
Seems like MLID wasn't going out on that much of a limb WRT claiming some RDNA3 stuff from that perspective.
Still this is the kind of low grade drama that drives clicks one way or the other.
To quote Feynman "what ever keeps them out of law school"

He talks about the last video of MLID with fantasy of spec boost of PS5 with 38 CUs.

 

[PSman1700]

Came across this on pcgamesn. Not it matters i know what's in there, just speculate

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/rdna-2-sony-ps5-gpu-pc

 

[smithg]

With dlss 2.0 which can do better (or as good as) than native 4k, I believe even native 4k is not a golden goal anymore, as long as good reconstruction techniques can do better job with better performances.

Yeah it’s kind of crazy what possibilities are unlocked by DLSS. Creating a reasonable 8k presentation with a new round of “Pro“ consoles actually seems plausible (though a complete waste of hardware IMO).

 

[zupallinere]

He talks about the last video of MILD with fantasy of spec boost of PS5 with 38 CUs.

Yes a lot of the same type of material but much less of a reaction.
Not that there is anything wrong with that. There is another thread with the list of PS5 rumors in a nice bulleted fashion. It is interesting to say the least.
Technically Sony would just be deactivating only 2 instead of 4 so it isn't like they are creating a while new chip but I think the specs from Cerny are pretty likely to stick.

 

[Globalisateur]

Yes a lot of the same type of material but much less of a reaction.
Not that there is anything wrong with that. There is another thread with the list of PS5 rumors in a nice bulleted fashion. It is interesting to say the least.
Technically Sony would just be deactivating only 2 instead of 4 so it isn't like they are creating a while new chip but I think the specs from Cerny are pretty likely to stick.

The problem is that CUs are grouped by 2 in a WGP. The whole WGP needs to be cut off from the APU. So to fit that 38CUs fantasy they would need to deactivate one whole WGP leading to an odd number of WGP in an asymetrical shader engine design.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Since Native 4K is such a big thing why wouldn't Native 8K be as well?

Because it's worthless on TVs..? I guess it wouldn't be worthless on people who own 8K projectors doing a ~200" panel, but there's not many of those in the world.
Native 8K could be useful for VR, though it seems the industry is more likely to go with foveated rendering + eye tracking than just ramping up resolution on everything we're not looking at.

The problem is that CUs are grouped by 2 in a WGP. The whole WGP needs to be cut off from the APU. So to fit that 38CUs fantasy they would need to deactivate one whole WGP leading to an odd number of WGP in an asymetrical shader engine design.

I also think they won't increase to 38 CUs. They're either going with the full 40 CUs and eat the losses with the lower yields, or more likely they're sticking to the already announced 36 CUs.
However, what would be the problem of having asymetrical shader engines?

With 36 CUs, each "slice" with L1 cache and RBE units will be serving either 4 or 5 WGPs, and that part won't change.
One shader engine would perform a little bit better than the other, but aren't they supposed to be able to work asynchronously?
Besides, do we know if the current 36CU implementation (or even the current Navi 10 LE cards) is disabling one WGP per SE? Maybe it's disabling 2 WGP on the same SE, depending on where the failures are located.

 

[AlNom]

I thought it had to be symmetrical (N disabled per SA per SE) because of the way the GCP distributes workloads.

 

[Jay]

I never actually said native 8k, just 8k.
But you would want a higher base resolution regardless compared to the 4k.

 

[MrFox]

Even if it was possible, is it even worth even a small yield sacrifice for getting 10.85TF instead of 10.28TF?

If they have better yield than expected, they have better launch volume and a lower cost per chip than expected. This is a much more important gain than an imperceptible GPU difference.

 

[function]

Even if it was possible, is it even worth even a small yield sacrifice for getting 10.85TF instead of 10.28TF?

If they have better yield than expected, they have better launch volume and a lower cost per chip than expected. This is a much more important gain than an imperceptible GPU difference.

Would require re jigging your smart shift table too, I'd imagine. Unless everything was so conservative that even a potential ~6% increase in CU power consumption meant nothing. And it would necessarily mean no relationship with the PS4 Pro CU count (assuming that was ever needed), and no need for integer scaling of the number of CUs in the base PS4.

Plus haven't they already, like, started making these things? Last minute changes in clock are one thing, but going asymmetrical on shaders and changing yield calcs during the production run ... and then telling rumour heavy Youtubers before developers .... ?

Also ... how are these Youtoobers getting insight into AMD's innermost RDNA3 architectural secrets given that RDNA2 cards haven't launched yet, and AMD haven't talked about RDNA2 at Hotchips or in a whitepaper yet?