Tekken 7 announcement leaked - Will use Unreal Engine 4 ?

[Karamazov]

we can't judge the final product with potatoe cam footage of a 50% final version of the game.

 

[Nesh]

Here are some examples to put an end to this once and for all. This is Street Fighter x Tekken

Check Jin's animations. Obviously it is using the Street Fighter style of animation. Does it look smooth? For a SF game yes.

Does it look "smoother" compared to TTT or T6?

Let us see

Nope

Now lets check SC. SC V and SC 2 introduced Tekken characters

Heihachi in SC 2

Heihachi in T5

How about Devil Jin in SC V?

Devil Jin in TTT2
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Not only doesnt SC versions look improved (they look somewhat modified though to fall in line with the rest of the SC gmeplay), even if we assume SC versions are indeed better, Namco insists in using the "Tekken" animations for apparent reasons.

 

[idsn6]

The excuse that they cannot touch the animations because of some decades-long legacy is nonsense. Frame counts and animations are adjusted in every single minor iteration, let alone major title releases. The changes to timings and balance are the entire point; frame changes are what hardcore fans jump to in changelists.

Namco is also obviously not totally averse to updating dated animations: Tekken 6 cleaned up Law's movelist quite a bit, for example. The modernizations have not been anywhere near evenly distributed, however, and for a 2015 game there is simply no reason for Kazuya's pelvis to still detach from his spine when he performs hellsweeps, or for Heihachi to hover slowly into the air during a powerbomb. Of the major fighter franchises, Tekken is particularly littered with awkward legacy animations.

 

[Nesh]

The excuse that they cannot touch the animations because of some decades-long legacy is nonsense. Frame counts and animations are adjusted in every single minor iteration, let alone major title releases. The changes to timings and balance are the entire point; frame changes are what hardcore fans jump to in changelists.

Namco is also obviously not totally averse to updating dated animations: Tekken 6 cleaned up Law's movelist quite a bit, for example. The modernizations have not been anywhere near evenly distributed, however, and for a 2015 game there is simply no reason for Kazuya's pelvis to still detach from his spine when he performs hellsweeps, or for Heihachi to hover slowly into the air during a powerbomb. Of the major fighter franchises, Tekken is particularly littered with awkward legacy animations.

I didnt say that animations cannot be touched at all.

It doesnt move exactly the same. The moves are the same but the animations were indeed refined numerous times. The series also has a huge legacy of moves and frame data that define the series' fighting mechanics. The creators cant ditch everything in favor of the most advanced animations created that may be oblivious of the mechanics in order to look the best. For the average joe it may not matter. He wants eye candy. But for a high level veteran, the frames and animation (for Kazuya's electrifying fist for example) define a strategy and years of practice and experience. The quality of the animations behave within the context of the legacy and gameplay mechanics for which the series is known for and this doesnt count just for Tekken. You will see it in every fighting game.

Yes I can agree that some animations can be farther refined.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

After purging the unpleasantries...

Soulcalibur moves a lot more naturally than Tekken, and the internet says that's because motion capture was used for a lot of the characters, such that note is made of one character who's moves weren't motion captured because they were superhuman.

Is there an example of Tekken's timing changes over the years to give an idea how much has been changed? If it's just a couple of frames here and there, a major overhaul might be too much in the eyes of the devs, although isdn6 suggests that they aren't opposed to significant changes - they're just not consistent.

I'll grant that nicer moves would be a bonus to the game's aesthetic IMO. It does look awkward and dated.

 

[Nesh]

After purging the unpleasantries...

Soulcalibur moves a lot more naturally than Tekken, and the internet says that's because motion capture was used for a lot of the characters, such that note is made of one character who's moves weren't motion captured because they were superhuman.

Is there an example of Tekken's timing changes over the years to give an idea how much has been changed? If it's just a couple of frames here and there, a major overhaul might be too much in the eyes of the devs, although isdn6 suggests that they aren't opposed to significant changes - they're just not consistent.

I'll grant that nicer moves would be a bonus to the game's aesthetic IMO. It does look awkward and dated.

The basis of the debate was about a complete overhaul of the animation so that it looks more realistic through motion capture or some undefined "next generational leap" of some sorts. This can be something completely different from animation refinement and rebalancing which is more in line with what idsn6 said.

Significant changes for a Tekken veteran may be completely different from someone whose concern is purely aesthetics. If aesthetics is the only concern there are no limits. But the dev needs to consider the gameplay and the community at the same time. They cant go too crazy for aesthetic purposes but they can make improvements that may not be blindly obvious.

This is why characters who saw "significant" changes in animation and frames, still perform within the foundations of Tekken. Even characters that appeared for the first time in Tekken 6 such as Bob, Lili, and Lars.
99% of their moves are new, not carried from PS2, but their animations (to me at least) arent that "advanced" or "smoother" compared to old timers like Jin or Hwoarang. To people like RedCurve nothing changed.

Another example is Virtua Fighter 5. VF5 improved in many areas compared to VF4 including animation. Virtua Fighter 5 Final Showdown saw many significant changes from Virtua Fighter 5 too. This includes changes in frame data, animation refinements, moveset replacement, attributes etc. If we ignore the graphics, VF5 FS has improvements over VF5, that you would expect from a normal sequel. These are felt mostly when playing not by watching superficially. But for RedCurve VF5's animation is "floaty" and "outdated" despite the changes because he is judging the game from "pure aesthetics", his subjective opinion on what is considered "good animation for a fighting game" and he is indirectly comparing it with games that share no similarities like Street Fighter's 2D gameplay and cartoonish style. At the same time VF5 FS is considered the deepest 3D fighter out there, with some of the best flows and is very faithful to the arts that each fighter represents.

 

[Nesh]

I m Jin in this one. The online is still going strong after all these years