Technological discussion on PS3 security and crack.*
- Thread starter senas8
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But then you are back in square one because the hacker can decrypt the new firmware, modify it, sign it and flash it... There is no way for sony to enforce updating unmodified firmware(unless sony recalls all ps3's and does the flashing somewhere themselves).
No matter if the new firmware comes from network, usb stick or whatever the hacker can get the binary for new firmware and do whatever they wish with it.
Only thing sony can do is add checks to firmware if something was tampered it will brick/reboot ps3. And even then hackers can go and remove all those checks if they so desire.
Quite unrealistic to expect a firmware update to do much now.
Yes,the Sony can enforce the update.
Without it you will not be able to play on the PSN,or with new games.
The hacker ,who has time to do all of this can found from the net the decrypted firmwware,or the new keys,but the guy with the planty of time anyway have a jailbreaker for the PS3,so it is just a nice,new feature for he.
you have to see that the customer of the sony is not the same who care too much about the cfws and all of the decrypted ofw keys.
That guy/gal just will go to the shop,and will buy himself / to his child the software,without considering anything ,that requiring a lot of google and time which required for all of this hacking stuff.
It is not like in the old ps2 times-now any company can force you with the new updates to learn again and again how to hack the console. Of course,you can stay on the curve,but it is soooo time consuming now.
aaronspink
Veteran
Um, that just means people will fake PSN to hack it. It wouldn't be the first time people had run a local emulation of a service to update a device. There is no reasonable way for them to close the barn door.
I think I understand what you are saying.
I think we can agree that vast majority of ps3 owners haven't hacked their machines yet so if Sony releases a firmware that prevents files from being transferred from a USB stick, a firmware that has to be installed if you want to play a new popular game, most people will install it.
Now if you have already hacked your ps3 all you have to do is wait a few days until the new firmware is cracked and patched and carry on your dubious practices safe in the knowledge that there is nothing Sony can do to stop you. But for those who have installed the new unpatched firmware, but later decide to hack your ps3, how do you go about it? Surely you can't?
Am I correct in thinking that the keys that allow software to be burnt and run from blu-rays haven't been released by the original hackers due to their anti piracy beliefs? Of course if I'm wrong then my entire argument falls apart.
Ahhh, just seen the post above by Aaronspink. So there will be a way, doesn't sound easy though.
I think we can agree that vast majority of ps3 owners haven't hacked their machines yet so if Sony releases a firmware that prevents files from being transferred from a USB stick, a firmware that has to be installed if you want to play a new popular game, most people will install it.
Now if you have already hacked your ps3 all you have to do is wait a few days until the new firmware is cracked and patched and carry on your dubious practices safe in the knowledge that there is nothing Sony can do to stop you. But for those who have installed the new unpatched firmware, but later decide to hack your ps3, how do you go about it? Surely you can't?
Am I correct in thinking that the keys that allow software to be burnt and run from blu-rays haven't been released by the original hackers due to their anti piracy beliefs? Of course if I'm wrong then my entire argument falls apart.
Ahhh, just seen the post above by Aaronspink. So there will be a way, doesn't sound easy though.
Why? The hackers might be able to extract the firmware, but it will always take time to find out what llittle extra checks sony have added. For most pirates it wont be an issue since they will be satisfied with playing the games that are "free" and it will only be a problem for new games.
And PSN is somewhat different. Sony will need to build in a better way to ID firmwares from each other when they connect to PSN. Maybe they will change the way/key whenever they do a firmware upgrade.
And if they are smart they will add a "time bomb" into the firmware that will explode/brick the hacked consoles at a certain point in time. The hackers will have a major problem finding such a thing since it could be easily hidden. Those that just want homebrew have that ability now, they just can´t update
Cat & Mouse and while Sony may have a hard time winning, they will win some battles under way.
so you think the Sony will leave the old,compromised key as valid firmware signature in the 3.6 firmware?
It could be quite stupid thing - but it is needed to install a cfw onto a post 3.55 ps3 with a fake PSN
Sony needs to leave the old compromised keys as valid in order to be able to run all the existing software currently out there. I detailed exactly why this is required earlier in this thread. As it's been said many times already, the system is wide open and short of a hardware revision there is nothing Sony can do to stop the Hackers.
The first thing that the BR drive tell to the console the type of the disc in it.
So,if the BR drive will report an original BR disc,the ps3 will accept the compromised key.
Otherwise it will requiring the new,not compromised key.
As I know currently there is no official application which run from a DVD.r,or from a BR-r,or even from an USB key.
The actual issue with the BR disc is not the keys:but simply that you can not make one.
If you can make factory discs(say dvds),then the whole xbox360 copy protection is useless.That's based on the inability of the users to make factory DVDs.(and the differences between the DVD-rs and the pressed DVDs)
Good,so if you can make pressed BRs,then the sony will not be able to prevent you from running not approved code.
Cool.
Every other code from the PSN can be updated.
You didn't read my earlier posts detailing why they can not remove old compromised keys. I suggest you do to see why that's not the case.
I can't found your post.
But why they can't just simply restrict the usage of the old key to the pressed BR discs?
Well, kinda pointless if you can install a CFW with the BR check removed? And well, you will be able to downgrade every existing PS3 (and install CFW as result), the way the PS3 is serviceable and secured theres no way a future firmware can ever stop that.
Or if you could just turn the game into a "PSN downloadable" then copy it to the HDD (using compromised keys).
There really is no easy way out for Sony, the hardware is fully compromised - actually more so than the PSP ever was (the pirates just dont have full grip on the firmware yet).
It will be a cat and mouse game with OFW updates and hacked CFW, if you think that time is on Sonys side then consider that games newer ship with brandnew OFWs, they all are atleast 2 months old to allow testing and production of the disc. Enough time to hack them for dedicated guys in their basement (on the PSP, once the first CFW was figured out it only took a couple days after the OFW to release).
The games released dont have unique disc-based checks, I would guess that this is the best option for disc releases. Add securom-like protection (with checks thorough the game)and atleast each game has to be cracked, giving it atleast a breather after release/each update
I don't know, but even if they are, are they stored there in the efuses, and is there any way to blow some to change it without anyone knowing it has been done, and what the new configuration is? Even if done in a step by step manner.
aaronspink
Veteran
If you have custom firmware,OR if you have the new,real random private key of the Sony (it will be secure now
No it won't. Get a clue people. ANYWAY you deliver an update to the PS3 now, the update is in plain text. Any keys you send are in plain text, any firmware you send is in plain text. There is no fix. There are only minor delays.
Oh, I bet it will... You really don't understand the situation do you?
Here, I'll tell you. You are trying to pass your super secret secret to your friend who is chained and bared by the only means available, standing on the commons podium and yelling it at the top of your lungs in plain english!
aaronspink
Veteran
Let me highlight the part you got right:
****And minimal security knowledge.*****
Now that you've admitted it, can you please stop spouting nonsense?
aaronspink
Veteran
Um, you can install all the new firmwares you want and then hack it at any point you want. The door CANNOT be shut. everything, anything, all of it, that sony sends/does to the console is out in the open. They cannot create new keys that cannot be read. It is finished/over/dead.
It is easy. It is simple. At best sony can annoy people for a day with each update but the question is, who is going to be more annoyed: sonys real customers or the hackers?
aaronspink
Veteran
And if they are smart they will add a "time bomb" into the firmware that will explode/brick the hacked consoles at a certain point in time. The hackers will have a major problem finding such a thing since it could be easily hidden. Those that just want homebrew have that ability now, they just can´t update
This isn't a new idea and in fact is quite old and quite pointless. It has been tried in the past in the sat space.
Haven't we already discussed the face that Sony made hacking the PSP so annoying that it stalled most piracy?
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