Techniques of Special optical effects (lens flare, DOF, etc.) *spawn

[Laa-Yosh]

Well, we don't usually do such distortions, but it certainly is necessary when compositing CGI into live action background plates.

What we once did was this optical phenomenon when you change your focus and as the foreground object gets out of focus, it appears to change size a bit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kA_4vgjTvU

And it really is about decades of conditioning from movies - if we want CG to look like that, we have to make it look like that, even if it's imperfect.

 

[London Geezer]

Well, we don't usually do such distortions, but it certainly is necessary when compositing CGI into live action background plates.

What we once did was this optical phenomenon when you change your focus and as the foreground object gets out of focus, it appears to change size a bit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kA_4vgjTvU

And it really is about decades of conditioning from movies - if we want CG to look like that, we have to make it look like that, even if it's imperfect.

Focus breathing (what you seem to be describing) is used to good effect in horror movies, the old ones especially. It is also a lens 'flaw' but this one actually adds a creepiness to the shoot that's quite individual.
I agree with you, we have been accustomed to movies for the last 100 years - mostly with lenses which are a lot less advanced to what we have today, creating effects we now expect from a movie - therefore it makes perfect sense to add those effects (even though they represent lens flaws which are being eliminated these days by purists) in order to make CGI look more realistic.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Yeah. One thing people don't realize is just how incredible ILM's lens flare work is. In Transformers there are sometimes dozens of high energy light sources, both real and CG, covered up by both real and CG elements. Like, robot passes in front of helicopter's spotlight, or human passes in front of robot's chest headlights. So sometimes they have to erase real flares and add back CG ones, and so on... mind blowing just to think about the complexities involved. And 99% of the viewers don't have a clue about these issues and CG elements...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What degree of CA is there in a typical movie lens these days?

 

[Billy Idol]

I remember the new star trek movie!
This had the most overused lens flare effect ever - literally every scene had the lense flare effect - this was grusesome, like a student discoverd this effect and re-edited every scene...booo!

Just my crazy statement...reagrding movies, in games...keep it coming

 

[Laa-Yosh]

What degree of CA is there in a typical movie lens these days?

I'm not a photographer but I'd say it depends on a lot of parameters.
And on artistic stuff... have you seen The assassination of Jessie James for example?

I'll have to re-check our movie before I link it here though, because I'm not sure how much of the lens effects remained in the final version...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'd be interested to see some examples of photos you're matching and the results of CA applied as a post effect. I'm curious how much difference it makes because in my mind I wouldn't have thought CA would be apparent, but then I'm not working in the movies!

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I've checked and the effect is still in, but rather subtle and mostly visible to the sides of the image, and on stuff that's slightly out of focus. Try to find a high quality quikctime or mp4 version, I think Gamersyde offers the later:
http://www.gamersyde.com/news_e3_assassin_s_creed_brotherhood_cg_trailer-9443_en.html

Unfortunately the compression covers it up a bit; the original uncompressed version obviously looks way better.
Then again it's still a helluva better then Gametrailers, sometimes I wonder why we make any efforts if a lot of people could end up watching their version only... and that horrible commercial at the end??

 

[Laa-Yosh]

As for reference, I'm not sure - I'm concerned with the modeling department, haven't got much say or knowledge about the compositing. I can see the dailies, talk with the guys while we have lunch, and that's it. Will ask about the issue tomorrow, though, I've got curious too

Edit: I think we've also used filmic tone mapping on this one as a first, too, the pure gamma correct outputs were horribly overbright yellow images.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I've checked and the effect is still in, but rather subtle and mostly visible to the sides of the image, and on stuff that's slightly out of focus. Try to find a high quality quikctime or mp4 version, I think Gamersyde offers the later:
http://www.gamersyde.com/news_e3_assassin_s_creed_brotherhood_cg_trailer-9443_en.html

That's incredibly realistic! The CA is very apparent at 55 seconds, and where it does give a high degree of photographic feel to the images, it's way more CA than I'd expect from a good lens. I'm going to have to hunt down some movie screens for comparison! Not that it really matters, as a look is a look, and if adding CA in post helps with the feel of the CG, go for it. But is it needed for realism? Well, I'll see what I can find!

 

[London Geezer]

That's incredibly realistic! The CA is very apparent at 55 seconds, and where it does give a high degree of photographic feel to the images, it's way more CA than I'd expect from a good lens. I'm going to have to hunt down some movie screens for comparison! Not that it really matters, as a look is a look, and if adding CA in post helps with the feel of the CG, go for it. But is it needed for realism? Well, I'll see what I can find!

Just thought about it and movies are full of tiny little details which are added in post-production to make them look and sound more 'real', even though, ironically, in reality those things would not be there at all.
One example is characters' steps sound. Sometimes (most times?) they are added in post-production to make them louder, when in reality you wouldn't actually hear them that much.
So i guess these fake-ish lens errors are to be filed in the many things that are added to movies to make them more realistic, even though really it's just because in the last 100 years we have gotten used to these unrealistic niggles and it would break our little brains if they were not there.
Like characters that are KO'ed with one single punch. Reality is much different, however seeing a 'real' fight in a movie would look strange to millions of viewers who have in fact never seen a real fight in their lives. To them a fight is "PUNCH! BOOM! KO!".
Gross generalisation, but you get my point...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yeah. I'm wondering what the current state of movie images actually is, and whether I'm thinking there's a higher image quality based on photography, whereas cinematography has stuck with relatively low-grade imaging in order to preserve that cinema feel? Then again, maybe CA is more apparent in photography than I appreciate?

 

[London Geezer]

Yeah. I'm wondering what the current state of movie images actually is, and whether I'm thinking there's a higher image quality based on photography, whereas cinematography has stuck with relatively low-grade imaging in order to preserve that cinema feel? Then again, maybe CA is more apparent in photography than I appreciate?

"That cinema feel" is exactly why cinema is still stuck at 24p (a feature that's also been a bit of a must-have on new TVs for a while now). And i'm sure there are more of these little things that could have been eradicated a long time ago.
But then i do love that cinema feel too, so who am i to argue

 

[Laa-Yosh]

That's incredibly realistic!

Thanks - I'll let the comp guys know

The CA is very apparent at 55 seconds, and where it does give a high degree of photographic feel to the images, it's way more CA than I'd expect from a good lens.

I'm going to have to hunt down some movie screens for comparison!

Surprisingly, this is one of the images that was both a reference and inspiration.

Which is 100% CG of course, so I'm thinking maybe it was added to keep the look consistent with the live action parts - they've been using a digital HD camera after all, and not some Panavision or other superb oldtime film camera.
Or maybe they could have cleaned it up from the live plates too, but decided to keep it, or simply add it from scratch, as a stylistic choice. James Cameron is pretty good at that, as we know - it's pretty much because of him that we associate blue lighting with nighttime

Not that it really matters, as a look is a look, and if adding CA in post helps with the feel of the CG, go for it. But is it needed for realism?

The comp guy said he thought it looked cool There's also vignetting, probably not that apparent, and we're thinking about adding more, somewhat custom lens effects in the future (this one has been created with some Nuke plugins).

 

[London Geezer]

There's also vignetting

YIKES!!

Just kidding, that's another super-hated thing by photographers which however adds 'mood' to a certain kind of shot

PS: i can't see your work from my office, so compliments will come later on!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Vignetting is glorious in LBP, one of its realism factors. Is there a photoshop plugin for adding CA (lots for removing!)? If so, it'd be worth applying some to some LBP2 screenies and seeing what it does to the overall feel.

 

[Rurouni]

Vignetting is glorious in LBP, one of its realism factors. Is there a photoshop plugin for adding CA (lots for removing!)? If so, it'd be worth applying some to some LBP2 screenies and seeing what it does to the overall feel.

I think the standard lens correction on Photoshop can remove AND add CA

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Filters / distort / Lens correction, and you'll have both vignetting and CA controls, and even some more.

You'll need some near-white high contrast edges to get the most of it, I think.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

So, Kane and Lynch 2 has all possible lens effects you can think about, from flares to CA to distortion, and a pretty well animated handheld camera too. I really like it, adds some nice feel to an otherwise not too new game.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-kane-lynch/101808

I'm still looking for some direct feed because it's hard to separate the shakycam and the in-engine stuff in the above video

 

[Laa-Yosh]

http://ve3d.ign.com/videos/play/748...s/Gameplay/E3-2010-Gameplay-Movie/Flash-Video

Direct feed, well worth checking out.