Tales of Symphonia gets very high scores...YAY!!

Cyborg said:
PC-Engine said:
When I saw video clips of this game in action, I knew I wanted to play it, unfortunately I think it's turn-based and I hate TB RPGs :(

The battle system is actually real-time, just like SNES' tales of phantasia. Its not entirely 3D, more like 2.5D since you can only go forward/backward in the scenery towards your enemies. You press buttons to make attacks and combos, etc.

You can actually play 4 players multiplayer during battles, without the need of GBA of course, like some game.. *cough FF cough*

Cool, I guess I'll be getting it then :D
 
Lol, Sega liking? :oops:

If you knew me you would know that I am not a Sega fan at all!

Only with shame do I admit to liking their few good games, but Skies definitely is one of them.

The game is simply incredible, from the carefree atmosphere and incredibly grandiose and unrestrained storyline to the excellent characterisation. The ship battles were something else also, and although the average battle system let the game down the other great points carried it IMO.

This, Panzer Dragoon, SMB, and Sonic games (not SA2:B) are the only cases you will ever see me praising Sega.
 
Bohdy said:
The game is simply incredible, from the carefree atmosphere and incredibly grandiose and unrestrained storyline to the excellent characterisation. The ship battles were something else also, and although the average battle system let the game down the other great points carried it IMO.

Incredible? Hardly, it´s incredibly stupid, if anything. The storyline is the most stupid thing you´ll ever find in a role playing game. It´s so dumb, clichéd, predictable and cartoony, I don´t understand how anyone can like it. I mean, "I´m super happy Vise and I want to have adventures!!". God, how much more stupid can a game get?

Sound has nothing outstanding about it. A typical clichéd soundtrack.

Characters have no sense of depth, they´re always happy, no matter what. They just lack anything taht could make a person care about them. They´re fun sometimes, in a very shallow way, but the rest of the game you spend wondering when the heck you´re going to see something new.

And please, DON´T get me started on the worst aspect of the "game", the battle system. Slow, cluncky, EASY, no strategy whatsoever. Ugh, and ship battles are even worse (can you say 30 minutes of easy battles?).
 
Tagrineth said:
LisaJoy said:
It is seriously about time the GC get a high quality RPG, PSO just did not cut the mustard.

Four words.

Skies of Arcadia: Legends.

Oh lordy, you got me on that one, my mind wasnt working.


"Incredible? Hardly, it´s incredibly stupid, if anything. The storyline is the most stupid thing you´ll ever find in a role playing game. It´s so dumb, clichéd, predictable and cartoony, I don´t understand how anyone can like it. I mean, "I´m super happy Vise and I want to have adventures!!". God, how much more stupid can a game get? "


Uhm, there isnt a Console RPG out there with a Story that isnt silly stupid and Cliche.. 99% of them consist of "Lord evil guy has stolenthe princess power crystal, we must stop him.. but wait, oh no.. emotional twist, he is my brother"
 
Skies of Arcadia is one of the best RPG this gen. Almasy probably doesnt like it because it doesnt have "teen angst" like 99% of the other japanese RPGs.
 
LisaJoy said:
Uhm, there isnt a Console RPG out there with a Story that isnt silly stupid and Cliche.. 99% of them consist of "Lord evil guy has stolenthe princess power crystal, we must stop him.. but wait, oh no.. emotional twist, he is my brother"

There are a couple of things called character development and effective storytelling that helps make clichéd arguements interesting (some twists on the standard formula are also welcome). However, SoA doesn´t even have a bit of what was previously mentioned.

Vice is a happy idiot throughout the entire game, Fina is the typical shy girl that uses mana (and aparently the writers don´t know how to give those characters a personality), Gilder is the typical "ladies man" that runs from commitment, etc. There´s NOTHING interesting about the game nor the characters, you can guess very accurately what happens during the rest of the game after the first couple of hours of play (which is fatal in an RPG).

And God, the battle system SUCKS. I haven´t played anything worse than that broken, slow and dumb system. Even Evolution had a better battle system than that.
 
None of these console RPG's interest me, least of all Final Fantasy.

Now Fallout 1/2, I don't even have words to fully describe the beauty of those games.. best games ever created IMO!
 
Almasy, a lot of the clicheing was deliberate, in case you didn't notice by its excessiveness, compared to Sega's other RPG efforts (Phantasy Star, anyone?).

If you read Gamespy's review of SoA:L, you'll find it loaded with nitpicking and gripes over the game, and yet at the end they still gave it around ~85, because they just found it a satisfying, enjoyable, and uplifting experience.
 
Tagrineth said:
Almasy, a lot of the clicheing was deliberate, in case you didn't notice by its excessiveness, compared to Sega's other RPG efforts (Phantasy Star, anyone?).

If you read Gamespy's review of SoA:L, you'll find it loaded with nitpicking and gripes over the game, and yet at the end they still gave it around ~85, because they just found it a satisfying, enjoyable, and uplifting experience.

Hey, best of luck calling all of those clichés deliberate, because the excessive, dumb, ineffective use of them that utterly failed to convey anything that even resembled a decent story couldn´t be achieved. Not even to mention that they make the entire game predictable, dumb and unplayable at many times.

What was "enjoyable" about the game? The idiotic, super-duper happy characters that have absolutely no depth? Or the incredibly easy, long and dumb battles? Or the "fantastic" encounter rate? What about the boring, dull environments that drew its "inspiration" from silly clichés? The blocky characters? Bad animation? What was so great about the game? Wait, I think I found the answer! The disgustingly bad exploration must have won them over.

I can only imagine the meeting where the game was decided. Desert = arabs, jungle = mayans (and Vice plays the role of Christopher Columbus...give me a break!), etc. And that´s not all, a bunch of dumb "side stories" involving...a man chasing a whale that "swims" inside clouds. :rolleyes:

Meh, there´s more creativity in Army Men than in this.
 
http://www.insertcredit.com/reviews/skiesofarcadia/index.html
This review of SoA is spot on - never read a better article about it. :)

PS: I gladly pass on the so called serious and "character driven" RPGs which have been so popular among japanese developers since FFVII started this trend. If I want character driven stories I read a book or watch a movie because I won't get the grade school-level character development of all these post-FFVII RPGs there. I'm glad Overworks had the courage to completely ignore this trend and go back to the good old 16bit-roots with a simple but engaging Star Wars-style "courageous heroes save the world"-story and it's good to see other developers slowly return to these roots too. From what I've seen so far the feel of Tales of Symphonia will be similar to SoA so I'm eagerly anticipating this game.:D
 
zurich said:
Am I the only one here who's loved the FFs from beginning (NES) to end (PS2) equally? :?

Yes.

I'd agree with you if FF8 didn't exist.

And re:SoA:

Almasy, Ceiser's article summed up what I was trying to say. It was all done deliberately. You're just not the kind of person who can get sucked into a game just because you're helplessly drawn to it for some unfathomable reason. =)
 
I think what made SOA good in my opinion was the worlds that came along with it. Sure the characters werent all that appealing and the battle system was rather slow and repetetive. But I swear when I went inside the vortex i felt like a little kid again. At the end of the game you do feel that the world is rather small for a whole planet, and that is one of the biggest problem i feel with RPGs nowadayes and FFs in particular, their world seem limited. You have a whole planet and only 3 major cities.

One way to solve this.

Suikoden, you are just a small empire part of the bigger world. You dont really know whats out there, nor do you care because your concerened with the bounds of your world.

Phantasy star 4, Just add a whole lot of planets and locations and make diverese enough to satisfy the user and make him feel part of a real world.

With FF seriously it feels as though you are so restricted in your imagination.

SOA was not a bad game and for dreamcase it was one of the best RPGs.

What we need is a Phantasy Star 4 remake.
 
CeiserSöze said:
http://www.insertcredit.com/reviews/skiesofarcadia/index.html
This review of SoA is spot on - never read a better article about it. :)

PS: I gladly pass on the so called serious and "character driven" RPGs which have been so popular among japanese developers since FFVII started this trend. If I want character driven stories I read a book or watch a movie because I won't get the grade school-level character development of all these post-FFVII RPGs there. I'm glad Overworks had the courage to completely ignore this trend and go back to the good old 16bit-roots with a simple but engaging Star Wars-style "courageous heroes save the world"-story and it's good to see other developers slowly return to these roots too. From what I've seen so far the feel of Tales of Symphonia will be similar to SoA so I'm eagerly anticipating this game.:D

Your comment would certainly be valid if it were anything LIKE 16 bit RPGs. It´s a bad copycat of those, sadly. Even the 16 bit RPGs had characters that :gasp: weren´t a predictable mass of crap that were happy all the time.

Overworks, courage? Ineptitude, I´d call it. SoA´s "heroes" are so cartoony, dumb and idiotic, the world so imposible, dumb and clichéd, the battle system so slow, easy and dumb, it makes you wonder wether it was really THAT obvious. And please, did you even look at the "enemies"? They were pathetic! A bad imitation of a bad-ass, the typical "I´m so helplessly evil just because" general, the typical hot enemy that is in love with aforementioned general, typical mad scientist. Urgh, I´d rather play Evolution.

Really, guys, give me something valuable to counter! SoA is a pile of crap, and there´s not a single redeeming aspect about it. If it´s so great, why aren´t there any objective posts about a real good aspect of the game, instead of those lame "It feels good! No matter how crappy, repetitive, slow and boring the battle system is! And how predictable and dumb the characters/story were! It´s charming, even when I´m circling around for 30 minutes in those boring ship battles that only involve waiting for a big weapon! And I couldn´t wait to see more dumb, badly presented clichés! The game rocks!!".

The game is terrible. If you think it´s not, then put a proper "defense" (which is going to be hard, since there´s nothing good about this game).

You want happy RPGs? Play Grandia, or FFIX. Don´t play crap like SoA.
And please God, don´t let Tales of Symphonia be in any way like that stinking POS.
 
^Does he ever shut up?

Blah blah blah.

They liked the game, deal with it.

I could say the same crap about any FF since 7 and have just as much validity as you did with that crap about SoA.

SoA: http://gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/197237.asp

FFX: http://gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/197344.asp

FFVII: http://gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/197341.asp

Not much of a diff between them.

Then there's always FFVIII: http://gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/197343.asp

FFVIII is a terrible game. So boring, crap characters, nothing going for it. Makes Quest 64 look like a masterpiece. <<<makes about as much sense as the crap you were spouting.

For its time SoA was a beautiful game, filled with intentional camp, and a nicely realized world. Overworks wanted it to seem like an old school RPG, they achieved it with great success. Likeable characters, very fun gameplay, (better then any FF to date) regardless of the excessive random battles.

The game was fun. And that's all that has to be said really. Most won't agree with you Almasy. Deal with it.
 
Teasy said:
None of these console RPG's interest me, least of all Final Fantasy.

Now Fallout 1/2, I don't even have words to fully describe the beauty of those games.. best games ever created IMO!

Have to agree. Fallout 1/2 were great games. Other good RPGs that I played were Wiz6 (Bane), Wiz7 (Crusaders), Wiz 8, Betrayal at Krondor, and some other old ones that I can't remember the name of but it came early on in the rush of the isometric view.

Anyhow, you might be interested to know that there is a MMO post-apocolyptic game being developed right now.
 
@Almasy
Just read the article I mentioned above.

zurich said:
Am I the only one here who's loved the FFs from beginning (NES) to end (PS2) equally?

I absolutely loved FFIV - FFVI. And Kefka is probably my favourite VG-villain ever (gotta love that laugh) :D

I liked FFVII very much but not because of its story but its gameplay. Imho FFVII had the best implementation of the ATB-system in any FF - the battles were actually fun in FFVII. But FFVII started this whole "depressive main hero"-thing which I didn't like at all.

It went all downhill from there though. FFVIII was atrocious. As I said I never liked the trend to focus on character driven-stories because I think most developers actually lack the ability to write good ones. It's a lot harder to write a good character driven story than your average "heroes have to save the world"-plot. The same goes for romance and FFVIII tried to be both character driven and a romance - and it took itself far too seriously too. I'd probably vote FFVIII the worst love story I ever saw or read on any media.

FFIX tried to go back to the roots of the series which I thought was a good thing after the disaster that was FFVIII and I quite liked what I saw first but strangely I never got sucked in and instead became bored quite fast. I stopped playing it halfway through and never felt the urge to complete it since then.

I never played FFX because the character design seemed very FFVIII-ish to me and that was enough a reason for me to pass.
 
I'm sorry Almasy, but you really missed the point of the game completely.

The cliches were of course deliberate, quite blatantly so, which made them all the more endearing. There were some unique charactrs aswell. The pure scope of the storyline and how unrestrained it was did for me also; escaping from the valuan fortress sure was exciting.

Now I have played FF 1-7 and I found #4 to be the best, and my liking of that is no more than lukewarm.
In general I find the characters incredibly stupid, the storyline incredibly uninteresting, and the battles incredibly tedious. There are a host of other RPG's that I like more than Final Fantasy.

In fact, i would not rate the FF series much higher than the Lufia series, if you know what that means...

And, as thundermonkey said, the same complaints you cite against Skies could be convincingly argued for FF.
 
thundermonkey said:
For its time SoA was a beautiful game, filled with intentional camp, and a nicely realized world. Overworks wanted it to seem like an old school RPG, they achieved it with great success. Likeable characters, very fun gameplay, (better then any FF to date) regardless of the excessive random battles.

The game was fun.

Right...can anyone explain to me since when I brought up FF? SoA is a really bad game, in every aspect. It doesn´t need to be compared to anything to realize it´s absolute lack of qualities.

Ok, international camp. What is so international about badly executed american clichés? I wasn´t pleased to see such a ridiculous portrayal of mayans in the game, and the rest of the game follows the same structure.

What was so realized about its world, really? I want details, your claims are all vague. Also, you can´t speak of its gameplay as a plus. The rate of battles was one of the biggest flaws in the game. The battles themselves were too slow, which made them boring and the fact that they were very easy affected it even more.

Magic isn´t balanced and there´s hardly any strategy in the battle system as a whole. Why? Simple, enemies as a general rule in the game were very weak, and the different "colors" hardly made any difference in the final damage count. Most of them can be conquered with any of the character´s weapons effectively, enemies are also very weak, which contrivutes to the ultimately broken fighting system. The way battles are carried out is very limited, and the "action points" idea was badly executed (inspired definitely in Chrono Cross). Not to mention that the visual aspect of the battles was nothing to write home about either.

Exploration is very tedious, battles come up too frequently, which makes traveling (one of the game´s main aspects) a pain in the ass.

I´ve covered all of the aspects of gameplay, what is so great about any of them?

And please don´t compare it to 16-bit RPGs. As bad as they look, they´re much, much better games than SoA.

[quote = "CeiserSöze"]
It's a lot harder to write a good character driven story than your average "heroes have to save the world"-plot.[/quote]

I agree, but you do need to have some skill to tell a story that manages to entertain and keep the player interested. SoA doesn´t achieve this, it´s so badly written that it´s completely predictable from day one. The world is filled with idiotic clichés (even if they were intentional, that doesn´t excuse the fact that they´re badly executed and ridiculous in every way) and uninteresting, stupid characters (both "heroes" and "bad guys").

Let me explain. First, the world. The world where the story takes place, the place your party must travel has to be interesting, in order for you to care about it in the first place. This is crucial because if it isn´t, why would you be interested in characters saving a world no one cares about? If it´s a light-hearted game, it needs a colorfull world with many interesting details about it, with interesting contrasts.

Now, let´s analyse SoA´s world. It´s filled with badly executed clichés. There´s a desert island, a jungle island, a chinese island,there´s an island for merchants... all of those presented with no uniqueness or qualities about them. They´re ordinary, not a single "touch" about them. It doesn´t follow an interesting theme, nor does it have interesting contrasts between their inhabitants. All of the things happening in those islands, what their habitants "thought" were a direct result of badly written clichés, (in short, contrived and forced). Which is undesirable, since the world itself must provide those interactions and contrasts.

Ok, now let´s analyse characters. Character driven or not, your game needs characters with depth. The game demands them in order to remain interesting, how deep you want them to go (along with how you design your world), will ultimately decide the tone of your game.

However, you just can´t have characters without any depth. Any character quickly becomes boring if there are no ocational ups and downs, the events must let you see more and more of the character to make the player feel attached to it, the character must grow. Vice and co never step out of their roles, which is still fine if they showed something interesting about their personalities.

The design mistake is that they don´t. Vice, even in the most precarious of situations, never losses the huge grin, and in every single event he reacts identically, which quickly made him a boring character. Fina is equally uninteresting, she never steps out of her role of quiet, restrained girl that uses mana. Nothing beyond that is shown in the game, and her character fails to grow in any way in the game. The above holds true for any character in the game.

I just don´t see what is so interesting about characters that don´t grow and react identically during the ~30 hours the game lasts.
 
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