Steam, Origin, Epic, Twitch, Good*, *Games Sales [2007-2021]

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Davros said:
Why didnt it let you install from the disc and save a huge dowload
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I didn't think of that, to be honest, but now that I am I'm wondering if the installation from disk automatically installs, and/or gets tied to, Games for Windows - Live. I guess it's easier for Steam and 2K to do it this way. I'm not sure what's up with Games for Windows - Live these days.

Only took a little more than an hour to download, I have an all you can eat cable provider so cost wasn't a factor.

Edit: It seems they added support for controllers to the Steam version.
 
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Or it could just be that Steam doesn't have a way to patch the original retail disk version to the latest version of the game. Likewise, it'd need a new installer anyway to get it to install correctly in Steam (bypassing GFWL which would be embedded in the retail disk install package).

So while, technically possible, it'd just be easier to have the user download and install the latest version of the game.

Regards,
SB
 
Pfft.. another webstore where $1=1€ for us filthy rich europeans...

Rumours say the Steam christmas sales will start in December 17th, so that's a week from now.
 
It is a quite curious thing how much Europeans have to pay for certain items. For consumer electronics, appliances, etc. I totally understand it since you don't have paltry, 90-day warranties and you have much stronger consumer protections for faulty or over-hyped items, but, software?
 
Mize said:
Make them hurt even more! AFAIK, there's no way to escape VAT in Europe.
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Companies don't have to pay VAT in most cases. It's not uncommon to buy hardware for the company even though it's mainly in private use. There are a fair amount of people who employ only themselves and in pretty standard jobs. Game software might be slightly problematic though :)
 
ToTTenTranz said:
Pfft.. another webstore where $1=1€ for us filthy rich europeans...

Rumours say the Steam christmas sales will start in December 17th, so that's a week from now.
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Except it's not. Assuming 20% VAT (which in the console forum people claim is on the low side), that would mean.

1 USD = ~0.83 Euros in the Steam Store.

At 25% VAT

1 USD = 0.80 Euros in the Steam Store.

And that doesn't even include any other fees that a "web store" may have to pay to operate within the EU or its various member states.

And before you claim that isn't fair. Steam, for example, collects taxes in all regions. So in the US that 1 USD is taxed based on the local rates for your billing address. For me that means ~8.1% is tacked onto everything I buy in Steam. And that varies depending on state and city with some not having to pay any sales tax (0.0%).

So quit whining about the various "web outlets" and complain to the EU or your local government for "hiding" the taxes you get charged. :p

Regards,
SB
 
Silent_Buddha said:
Except it's not. Assuming 20% VAT (which in the console forum people claim is on the low side), that would mean.

1 USD = ~0.83 Euros in the Steam Store.

At 25% VAT

1 USD = 0.80 Euros in the Steam Store.

And that doesn't even include any other fees that a "web store" may have to pay to operate within the EU or its various member states.

And before you claim that isn't fair. Steam, for example, collects taxes in all regions. So in the US that 1 USD is taxed based on the local rates for your billing address. For me that means ~8.1% is tacked onto everything I buy in Steam. And that varies depending on state and city with some not having to pay any sales tax (0.0%).

So quit whining about the various "web outlets" and complain to the EU or your local government for "hiding" the taxes you get charged. :p

Regards,
SB
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Steam doesn't do 1€=$1 and neither does GreenManGaming... which pretty much renders all your arguments as moot.
 
ToTTenTranz said:
Steam doesn't do 1€=$1 and neither does GreenManGaming... which pretty much renders all your arguments as moot.
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But the point still stands in absolute Zero online stores does 1 USD = 1 Euro for game price. Because Euro prices include VAT while USD prices do NOT include tax.

So whining about 1 USD = 1 Euro in a web store is meaningless and only for the uneducated.

Regards,
SB
 
Davros said:
unless the store is actually situated in the euro zone then they dont pay vat
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Incorrect. And has been incorrect since 2003.

For example...

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8360-WEJC-2625#taxes

As well...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Value_Added_Tax

Goods imported from non-member states are subject to VAT at the rate applicable in the member state into which the goods are imported, regardless of whether the goods are received for consideration and regardless of who imports the goods.[20] VAT is generally charged at the border, at the same time as customs duty and using the price determined by customs.[21] However as a result of the action of an EU administrative VAT relief an exception called Low Value Consignment Relief is allowed on shipments of a low value.

VAT paid on importation is treated as input VAT in the same way as VAT on domestic purchases.

Goods imported from non-member states are subject to VAT at the rate applicable in the member state into which the goods are imported, regardless of whether the goods are received for consideration and regardless of who imports the goods.[20] VAT is generally charged at the border, at the same time as customs duty and using the price determined by customs.[21] However as a result of the action of an EU administrative VAT relief an exception called Low Value Consignment Relief is allowed on shipments of a low value.

VAT paid on importation is treated as input VAT in the same way as VAT on domestic purchases.

Following changes introduced on 1 July 2003, non-EU businesses providing digital electronic commerce and entertainment products and services to EU countries are also required to register with the tax authorities in the relevant EU member state, and to collect VAT on their sales at the appropriate rate, according to the location of the purchaser.[22] Alternatively, under a special scheme, non-EU businesses may register and account for VAT on only one EU member state.[22] This produces distortions as the rate of VAT is that of the member state of registration, not where the customer is located, and an alternative approach is therefore under negotiation, whereby VAT is charged at the rate of the member state where the purchaser is located.[22]
Alternatively, under a special scheme, non-EU businesses may register and account for VAT on only one EU member state.[22] This produces distortions as the rate of VAT is that of the member state of registration, not where the customer is located, and an alternative approach is therefore under negotiation, whereby VAT is charged at the rate of the member state where the purchaser is located.[22]
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Note the bolded part as this applies to all web stores selling digital content to anyone located in a EU VAT member state. That is from the EU directive contained in {http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2002:128:0041:0044:EN:PDF } Please note that collection of VAT is based on the location of the purchaser and not the seller. Although there is an exemption that can be applied for that would allow a digital store to collect VAT based on a single EU member state. But that may soon be nullified. And/or be subject to the EU VAT distance selling rules (if a store sells product to another VAT region, if the value of their sales in a given time period exceed a certain value, they must collect VAT based on the purchaser's location and not the registered VAT region).

ALL web stores selling to EU member state citizens are required to collect VAT. Game sales do not get a special exemption from that. Any outside entities wanting to sell product to anyone within an EU member state must register for collection of VAT.

ToTTenTranz said:
Thank you.
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Don't thank someone for providing incorrect information. ;) If a company outside of the EU is selling digital product to someone in the EU without collecting VAT, they are breaking EU law. Physical products get charged VAT during customs unless the product is from a seller who is registered to collect VAT from a EU member state, in which case VAT won't be assessed in customs as I understand it.

Regards,
SB
 
Heh, I guess if it affects the countries tax bases too much even the EU bureaucrat fairytales about unimpeded free flows get ignored.
 
MfA said:
Heh, I guess if it affects the countries tax bases too much even the EU bureaucrat fairytales about unimpeded free flows get ignored.
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Hell, at one point the EU enforced VAT collection on any product manufactured in the EU and then exported to another country. They eventually got rid of that as it put products manufactured in the EU at a serious disadvantage versus products manufactured in countries outside of the EU.

Regards,
SB
 
Mize said:
It is a quite curious thing how much Europeans have to pay for certain items. For consumer electronics, appliances, etc. I totally understand it since you don't have paltry, 90-day warranties and you have much stronger consumer protections for faulty or over-hyped items, but, software?
Click to expand...

Stronger consumer protections?

Growing up in EU and then moving to US, personally I see all these "consumer friendly protections" as BS.

I will take "no questions asks returns" which are the norm in the US, over everything they have over there.
 
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