Star Citizen, Roberts Space Industries - Chris Roberts' life support and retirement fund [2012-]

[Grall]

Meanwhile the game gets delayed and delayed and exclusive perks to kickstarters get taken away.

Nothing is being taken away from you. This is not how language (or logic) works. So you're not a special snowflake anymore with your exclusive features; you still have the features. They haven't been taken away from you; they've been given to other people as well. That is the opposite of "taken away"!

Derek Smart was right and that's been obvious to me for a while now.

Oh really, what's Derek Smart been saying? Lol. This would be a first in the history of ever I think, if true...

 

[iroboto]

My real concern for this game is that backing this game is the business model - whenever the well of money is going to run dry they ramp up money towards promotions and release pre-order exclusive DLC, and people buy it up and hence more funding to continue.

This concept of a no compromise game is no longer promising to me as games that compromise actually ship. If the well of backers eventually runs dry and there are no more backers and the game is incomplete what next? The project defaults? And all that money is considered spent? and we receive no rewards for it?

At this point in time, I'm actually worried about my meagre $60 dollar KS backing. I just don't know if it will ever get returned; it's a risk of kick starting, they don't guarantee anything.
Most KS companies that earn their backing, complete their project and then sell it on retail outlets afterwards to continue to profit of their IP afterwards.
This is an entirely different model and backers have the right to feel concerned.

 

[eastmen]

Nothing is being taken away from you. This is not how language (or logic) works. So you're not a special snowflake anymore with your exclusive features; you still have the features. They haven't been taken away from you; they've been given to other people as well. That is the opposite of "taken away"!


Oh really, what's Derek Smart been saying? Lol. This would be a first in the history of ever I think, if true...

Grall , your wrong on that.

1) Limited Alpha and Beta entry . By limiting entry to only kickstarter time frame backers we would get an advantage of learning the games systems and playing. That results in a very real world advantage in game which is now taken away as there are what 500 thousand backers now.

2) LTI - Not having to pay insurance costs on ships would be a monetary advantage kickstarter time frame players would have on their original ships. This would allow you to enter more dangerous space or make more per mission/job than someone would with out. Now that everyone can have LTI that advantage is gone.

3) Limited ships - Ships on sale for a day like the starfarer was supposed to be would allow you to establish trading relationships and harvest fuel that other players wouldn't be able to get to until they earned enough in game to get the ship. This would be a real advantage.

So the advantage in all 3 situations has been taken away.

 

[eastmen]

eeastmen
I read it but I know that we could never stop he discussion. So I will no more talk about this. I think that they will show/release a lot this year.

The problem is , what they will show is not what was promised or when it was. I don't expect squadron 42 this year , I've played the alpha and its still really really rough.

But even if we see a release of a few missions that still doesn't fix the times they lied to early backers for the sake of more money.


What I see as a backer is that Chris promised us the best damn space sim but some where along the lines he has dumped countless money on celebrities to keep his Hollywood dreams alive. Its beyond obvious when you see the big names he has pulled into this project for voice acting. People we don't need in the game and the game would have been millions less.

FPS wasn't part of the game goals and when it was introduced as a stretch goal is was just for boarding other ships . Now its a full fledge FPS game that was already designed once but thrown out.

Then lets not forget that the original ships have been redesigned multiple times. The freelancer is on its 4th revision and I think the connie has been redone just as many times.

Money is being wasted everywhere. I'm concerned that even with a 110m its not enough

 

[Grall]

So the advantage in all 3 situations has been taken away.

Like I said, the only thing "taken away" from you is your feeling of being a special snowflake. Is that all what matters to you, that you have "advantages" over other players..? If so, maybe you shouldn't bother with this game, because you don't seem to care about the actual game.

If they opened up alpha and beta to more players it is because it was a bad decision to limit it to only original backers. If you actually cared about the game rather than your status as a pampered flake, you'd be happy about this. Same with the other changes you list. Meanwhile, you still get all the things you were promised; they weren't taken away from you. You can gather your fuel and whatever the fuck else. You'll have your ever so important advantage over new players like me who will join when the finished game actually ships. Isn't that enough for you?

 

[eastmen]

Like I said, the only thing "taken away" from you is your feeling of being a special snowflake. Is that all what matters to you, that you have "advantages" over other players..? If so, maybe you shouldn't bother with this game, because you don't seem to care about the actual game.

If they opened up alpha and beta to more players it is because it was a bad decision to limit it to only original backers. If you actually cared about the game rather than your status as a pampered flake, you'd be happy about this. Same with the other changes you list. Meanwhile, you still get all the things you were promised; they weren't taken away from you. You can gather your fuel and whatever the fuck else. You'll have your ever so important advantage over new players like me who will join when the finished game actually ships. Isn't that enough for you?

The whole game is about buying advantages over other players. Whoever has the most real life cash can buy an advantage over anyone.

I pledged early and did so in exchange for promised advantages. And yes they were taken away from me dispite your attempt at trolling.

They opened up more alpha and beta slots because new funders didn't want to back the game since they couldn't play. Of course now the game is 2 years behind schedule and 100m+ over budget. There also has been nothing to really test until early this year.

The things I was promised were taken away. I've already explained it to you. Starfarer was supposed to be a single day sale at the end of kickstarter during the live stream. It was supposed to never go on sale again. Dispite this they continue to sell it.

You call me a special snow flake but why are others allowed to keep their super limited ships.

IF they were honest and said no one gets anything limited (except for javlins and sythes and idris) I wouldn't have backed and I know a lot of people who wouldn't have backed. I could have waited years until the game actually came out.

So it was good for them to lie to me and take my money when they needed funding , but now i'm the special snowflake cause I expect them to keep their promises.

 

[Grall]

So it was good for them to lie to me and take my money when they needed funding , but now i'm the special snowflake cause I expect them to keep their promises.

Well, the way you're going on about this I would say it's fine that they lied to you, since all you care about is your supposed advantage over other players that you desired. Karma in action. Is that the only thing that drives you in life or in gaming, the undeserved advantage you can somehow get?

 

[Jupiter]

What I see as a backer is that Chris promised us the best damn space sim but some where along the lines he has dumped countless money on celebrities to keep his Hollywood dreams alive. Its beyond obvious when you see the big names he has pulled into this project for voice acting. People we don't need in the game and the game would have been millions less.

FPS wasn't part of the game goals and when it was introduced as a stretch goal is was just for boarding other ships . Now its a full fledge FPS game that was already designed once but thrown out.

Then lets not forget that the original ships have been redesigned multiple times. The freelancer is on its 4th revision and I think the connie has been redone just as many times.

Money is being wasted everywhere. I'm concerned that even with a 110m its not enough

I will just talk about this.

Known actors were a stretch goal already at the beginning. It is true that he has now put a lot of famous performance actors. One can find that good or bad. I can understand the criticism. I personally like it. These names are also advertising for the game. What I would not like is television advertising. They should finance advertising like this then with there own money.

Battles on foot have always been important. Already at the beginning Roberts said that you have the possibility to conquer other ships from inside.

The redesign makes sense. They have made progress in the development and now they have developed methods/pipelines by which ships can developed relatively quickly with higher standards and higher render efficiency. Of course, a lot of work went lost. But one has to learn from his errors. Other studios will sometimes also start from scratch at something. Only we do not know about it.
What they are doing now and they should have done at the beginning. Is it the interior design of spaceships. That they define the place it would need in advance. And only after that the concept artists should create the design. Unfortunately, that was not always so. Therefore, ships like the Freelancer later became bigger. The inner vessel components needed space.

 

[eastmen]

Well, the way you're going on about this I would say it's fine that they lied to you, since all you care about is your supposed advantage over other players that you desired. Karma in action. Is that the only thing that drives you in life or in gaming, the undeserved advantage you can somehow get?

So you've only purchased game access and not a ship correct ?

This is my favorite thing to look back on

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/posts/353251

The pledge the founding document that lets you know the standards they intend to keep themselves too. The page is now gone.

 

[Grall]

So you've only purchased game access and not a ship correct ?

I haven't purchased or funded the game at all, as I'm not convinced it'll actually come out. Considering how late it is, the ongoing delays, the constant feature creep and Roberts' obvious megalomania I'm thinking it just might end up the most spectacular bellyflop in gaming history.

IF it makes it out, I'll consider buying it if it is worth spending time on, and not a pay-to-win newbie-ganking PvP hell.

If I was as dissatisfied with my experience with it as you seem to be, I would demand a refund and just wash my hands of the game. If they refuse, I would take them to small claims court and get my victory that way.

 

[eastmen]

I will just talk about this.

Known actors were a stretch goal already at the beginning. It is true that he has now put a lot of famous performance actors. One can find that good or bad. I can understand the criticism. I personally like it. These names are also advertising for the game. What I would not like is television advertising. They should finance advertising like this then with there own money.

You can get talented actors that wont charge the price of a gary oldman . He came back from Hollywood with his tale between his legs and is now using his past of successful games to get his new movie made and have his wife star in it with big Hollywood actors.
Big names in this game isn't going to make someone go out and buy it. Its just a waste of money that could have been spent else where on the game to make it better.

Battles on foot have always been important. Already at the beginning Roberts said that you have the possibility to conquer other ships from inside.

Ship boarding was part of the 3.5m stretch goal. That's 3m past its original funding goal on kickstarter. Enhanced boarding options was the 5m stretch goal

The redesign makes sense. They have made progress in the development and now they have developed methods/pipelines by which ships can developed relatively quickly with higher standards and higher render efficiency. Of course, a lot of work went lost. But one has to learn from his errors. Other studios will sometimes also start from scratch at something. Only we do not know about it.

They keep remaking it , all those ships could have been flyable in the alpha for us the players to give feedback on it. They put out a number of ships to let us fly over the last 2 years , they would rather launch a new ship in the game to make $ than to give older backers what they paid for

What they are doing now and they should have done at the beginning. Is it the interior design of spaceships. That they define the place it would need in advance. And only after that the concept artists should create the design. Unfortunately, that was not always so. Therefore, ships like the Freelancer later became bigger. The inner vessel components needed space.

And they should have known that 3 redesigns ago. However with the freelancer one of its selling points is that it would be the biggest ship that can go through the smallest wormholes. That is no longer true and is only able to go through the same wormholes are the connie. The connie is better in every way and the price point difference is tiny between the ships

 

[eastmen]

I haven't purchased or funded the game at all, as I'm not convinced it'll actually come out. Considering how late it is, the ongoing delays, the constant feature creep and Roberts' obvious megalomania I'm thinking it just might end up the most spectacular bellyflop in gaming history.

IF it makes it out, I'll consider buying it if it is worth spending time on, and not a pay-to-win newbie-ganking PvP hell.

If I was as dissatisfied with my experience with it as you seem to be, I would demand a refund and just wash my hands of the game. If they refuse, I would take them to small claims court and get my victory that way.

I've demanded a refund many times and quite loudly at that. I'm banned from their forums. They didn't like that I had links to their promises and lies.

 

[Grall]

I've demanded a refund many times and quite loudly at that. I'm banned from their forums. They didn't like that I had links to their promises and lies.

Small claims court. I think you have more than sufficient justification.

 

[eastmen]

Small claims court. I think you have more than sufficient justification.

that requires a lot more effort than bitching online . Also I don't think small claims court would count. In jersey its a maximum of 3k

 

[Grall]

@eastmen
Well, you didn't spend more than 3k on a computer game, did you? Even if you did (crazy!!), getting $3k back into your pocket would be pretty serious dough for most regular joes...

And if bitching online doesn't get you what you want, wouldn't $3k be worth the extra effort? You say they already banned you from their forums, so unless you're starting a twitter war against RSI and/or contacting online gaming sites (Polygon, Kotaku and so on) about this there isn't much you can do when it comes to bitching anyhow.

...Which might not be such a bad idea after all, especially the latter. Oftentimes, people tend to end up getting their refunds after all if the media get involved.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

The whole game is about buying advantages over other players. Whoever has the most real life cash can buy an advantage over anyone.

If this is the case, I've completely lost interest in this game.

 

[eastmen]

@eastmen
Well, you didn't spend more than 3k on a computer game, did you? Even if you did (crazy!!), getting $3k back into your pocket would be pretty serious dough for most regular joes...

And if bitching online doesn't get you what you want, wouldn't $3k be worth the extra effort? You say they already banned you from their forums, so unless you're starting a twitter war against RSI and/or contacting online gaming sites (Polygon, Kotaku and so on) about this there isn't much you can do when it comes to bitching anyhow.

...Which might not be such a bad idea after all, especially the latter. Oftentimes, people tend to end up getting their refunds after all if the media get involved.

I have 3k invested because of my group of friends. Its not all my money but we had an idris for a little bit but was able to just recently sell it. We were planning on playing together but due to huge delays things have changed.

 

[eastmen]

If this is the case, I've completely lost interest in this game.

The ships are for sale and so is in game money. So a person can go out and buy the best ship and equip the best items onto it all without even playing the game.

I know people who have been buying the maximum amount of in game creidts they are allowed to each month.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I know people who have been buying the maximum amount of in game creidts they are allowed to each month.

Because the game is so broken that's the only way to advance?

 

[Jupiter]

10 for the chairman with Erin Roberts

Jack Knyfe asks: What is the next major milestone that you’re excited about?

There’s a few, so in the near future, he says… In the near future we have one is you guys flying the Starfarer. I think people are going to love it because it’s truly a capital sized ship and people go on there and have FPS on it, you can have lots of stuff, have lots of fun and so on and so forth and things with that so that will be a really cool one.

Of course persistence is very close where you basically will have some shops you’ll be go in a buy clothes and armor and weapons and stuff and things like that. Then we’re going to release Alpha UEC which is basically UEC that you can play within the Persistent Universe which isn’t proper UEC, it’s not the UEC you have now, it’s going to be something we use so we can get it out there and test out the universe and stuff like that.

Then of course right after that is you’re going to have procedural stuff which is gonna make a massive difference because it’s not just the planet stuff that you have seen some demos for, procedural can be used all over the place and It’ll make a massive difference in gameplay.