Star Citizen, Roberts Space Industries - Chris Roberts' life support and retirement fund [2012-]

[eastmen]

-You know that there was a survey. 80-90% wanted that they continue with the donations.

-I have already explained why they need the money. Without constant revenue, it is much more difficult to obtain staff.
-Without constant revenue you dont get the best programmers in the gaming industy (like Crytek employees). But they are needed for tech like Star Citizens revolutionary local physics grid

Yes gamers wanted to give more money, when they asked kickstarter had finished a few months before and we were at like 6m funded. We are now at 110m.

Roberts claimed that at 20m he could create the game he wanted too without needing to get money from other sources. We are now at 110m and years later and are no closer to that game being done.

-20 % of the money which is spent in the UK they will get back from UK again. This also applies to the perfromance capture shoot.
- But you can already see that they had in the beginning of 2014 only 100 emplyees?

the start of 2014 was right after kickstarter , thy would have had less employees but at a higher cost per employee since it counts Roberts and his wife and all the higher ups. They also went on a hiring spree which costs money.

- We have FPS at Kareah

which is broken and doesn't work right

-They dropped Multi Crew Ships in Arena Commander because it came with the Mini PU. Technically, it would be very easy to perform.

Which was delayed and the PU isn't actually persistant because there is nothing that you can do that stays. None of the systems like trading , mining , fuel harvesting and the like are in the game. So there is nothing to test out. Its a glorified dog fighting module that has a small area to walk around with others and limited fps

There are already some people flying around with the Starfarer in Arena Commander.

I own one and I can't fly it. I tried last night.

Guess I'm not special enough

-At this time they wanted to release Squadron 42 in different episodes. So that players could test it 2015. Now you will get one full game with higher quality. Is see no problem here.
-The Persistent Universe was released in 2015

SQ 42 was supposed to be ready in 2014 as episodes. The first coming that fall. It is now April of 2016 and we don't have the game. The majority of systems are still not in place for the game.

The persistent Universe as promised at kickstarter was not released in 2015. What was released was even less than what was promised for 2014.

The people who pledge for their spaceships will get to test-fly them long before the general public. 12 months in, we will allow the early backers to play the multiplayer space combat Alpha, and then 20-22 months in they will get to play the Star Citizen Beta, adventuring around the huge open galaxy, well before the general public. We are going to limit our alpha slots to 200,000 as we want to stress test the game with real users, but will not be ready for the full load until we have finished Beta.

Its hilarious to go to the kickstarter page and read through all the updates and everything. Anything that linked to their main page and they went back on is now gone from their site. But it still exists on kickstarter since they can't edit it. So its a lot of fun to go and see the broken promises that they were quite happy to accept money for at the time but decide that newer money was more important.

If you read this thread through and some of the others on this game here you can see how excited I was for this game. I remember going to pax east and being one of the first outside of cig to play arena commander. I even went to their party afterwards and watched the game simply not work on the screen. I bought ships left and right all excited. But then towards the end of 2014 they started to go back on what they said and delays started creeping up and they pushed the game back while asking for more and more money and I went oh boy this is never coming out.

 

[Jupiter]

Yes gamers wanted to give more money, when they asked kickstarter had finished a few months before and we were at like 6m funded. We are now at 110m.

Roberts claimed that at 20m he could create the game he wanted too without needing to get money from other sources. We are now at 110m and years later and are no closer to that game being done..

Then we would have lower quality graphics, far less ships, and we would get a much smaller Squadron 42 campaign without 6km big space stations that have hundreds of rooms etc,

Absolutly false

the start of 2014 was right after kickstarter , thy would have had less employees but at a higher cost per employee since it counts Roberts and his wife and all the higher ups. They also went on a hiring spree which costs money..

For a game which this scope they need this much employees and they also need time. Even small corridor shooters are today developed in four years. Star Citizen will be bigger than any other game. And then you will get two games (Squadron 42 and Star Citizen).

which is broken and doesn't work right

Who said that Star Marine would not in 2015?

Which was delayed and the PU isn't actually persistant because there is nothing that you can do that stays. None of the systems like trading , mining , fuel harvesting and the like are in the game. So there is nothing to test out. Its a glorified dog fighting module that has a small area to walk around with others and limited fps.

I own one and I can't fly it. I tried last night. Guess I'm not special enough

The game is not persistent yet. But this will come with the next 2.4 patch I think. Then you can change armor, clothing, space ship components. You will be able to buy weapons etc. Trading/Transport could come too.

Some things come later, some will come sooner. Roberts said that the procedural planet tech will come two or three years after Star Citizen launched. Now it will come this year.

Its a bug but it is possible.

SQ 42 was supposed to be ready in 2014 as episodes. The first coming that fall. It is now April of 2016 and we don't have the game. The majority of systems are still not in place for the game.

Like I said it . But the quality will be better.

The persistent Universe as promised at kickstarter was not released in 2015. What was released was even less than what was promised for 2014..

No.

Its hilarious to go to the kickstarter page and read through all the updates and everything. Anything that linked to their main page and they went back on is now gone from their site. But it still exists on kickstarter since they can't edit it. So its a lot of fun to go and see the broken promises that they were quite happy to accept money for at the time but decide that newer money was more important.

If you read this thread through and some of the others on this game here you can see how excited I was for this game. I remember going to pax east and being one of the first outside of cig to play arena commander. I even went to their party afterwards and watched the game simply not work on the screen. I bought ships left and right all excited. But then towards the end of 2014 they started to go back on what they said and delays started creeping up and they pushed the game back while asking for more and more money and I went oh boy this is never coming out.

Early backers like me had the time to get a refund in 2015. Perhaps it is even now possible for original 2012 backers. Why did you not do it if you constantly crying here?

 

[Arwin]

A friend of mine is in the first wave, so always gets to test any new content first. He always excitedly tells me of new developments. He remains a huge fan of this game and it's the only game he plays, and has been for at least a year now. I've told myself however that I will stay away from all space sims until I can play them in VR, and when that happens I'll look at which one offers the best experience for me then ...

 

[Jupiter]

I heard that Elite Dangerous is really good in VR. They said VR is a game changer. Boring activities suddenly become exciting.

But in Star Citizen it will be much more difficult to implement because it is a First Person Universe with complex animations. VR was just confirmed as a stretch goal for the hangar module. But Roberts said that they still care.

 

[eastmen]

Then we would have lower quality graphics, far less ships, and we would get a much smaller Squadron 42 campaign without 6km big space stations that have hundreds of rooms etc,

Absolutly false

its true , go back and watch his interviews.

I don't care about graphics , I care about having a real game to play. In a few months when the new grpahics cards come out are we going to have to wait for them to redesign everything all over again like they have been for years. Will your excuse be that we would have had lower graphics if they didn't wait.

For a game which this scope they need this much employees and they also need time. Even small corridor shooters are today developed in four years. Star Citizen will be bigger than any other game. And then you will get two games (Squadron 42 and Star Citizen).

Yet this is not the promise they made at kickstarter. I am on the page now Estimated Delivery is Nov 2014.

Who said that Star Marine would not in 2015?

The fps module was promised at the start of 2015 and it was delayed. Now we don't even have the features promised for what was to be the original release almost one year ago.

The game is not persistent yet. But this will come with the next 2.4 patch I think. Then you can change armor, clothing, space ship components. You will be able to buy weapons etc. Trading/Transport could come too.

its not coming in the next patch. The PU doesn't exist in anything more than a name. The original alpha of the PU was that we would have all systems to test and provide feedback on back in 2014. Its now 2016 and we still don't have those systems

Some things come later, some will come sooner. Roberts said that the procedural planet tech will come two or three years after Star Citizen launched. Now it will come this year.

Notice your proving my point. They promised too much and the game has delayed. The game was promised in 2014 and now we are in 2016 and stuff they promised still isn't added. Maybe Procedural tech will make it in this year , maybe not. They never hit a single deadline or soft milestone they announced. I have no faith based on their track record that they will suddenly start hitting them.

Its a bug but it is possible.

Great , yay. Now if they would only take away the ship from anyone who didn't buy it during the live stream that would be great. Oh yea and make it back into a max crew of 2 people like they sold it as.

Like I said it . But the quality will be better.

its debatable and its debatable if the game will ever come out at this point. It just keeps getting delayed.

No.

Yes

Early backers like me had the time to get a refund in 2015. Perhaps it is even now possible for original 2012 backers. Why did you not do it if you constantly crying here?

I did ask for a refund and I was told no. I asked so many times they banned me from their forums. They don't like when people point out that they lied.


Btw this was my pledge

Pledge $125 or more
About $125 USD

1,453 backers

FREELANCER: The finished game for your PC with your MISC Freelancer ready to fly (High-end ship focused more for trade and exploration) + 5,000 Galatic Credits + Exclusive access to the Alpha and Beta + Spaceship shaped USB stick with the game and all digital elements + CD of game soundtrack + Fold-up glossy full color map of the game universe + Hardcover copy of Star Citizen manual + Bronze Citizens Card

Less
Estimated delivery:Nov 2014
Ships to:Anywhere in the world

So far I have gotten the freelancer to fly now in its 3rd year even though its no longer a high end ship. I got my galatic credits , my alpha and beta access are no longer exclusive and I never got any of the rest no usb stick , no cd , no color map , no hardcover copy of the manual and no bronze citizen card.

Notice the Estimated delievery. Oh and I never got any of the stretch goals either that I'm still waiting on.


Also as per Kickstarter's TOS we are entitled to a full financial accounting of where the money has been going if they missed their Nov 2014 date by more than 12 months.

Its nice that we finally got the starfarer. My friend has the catapiler ship which he pledged for back in Nov of 2012 and no one has seen anything on that ship since the concept art. However how many dozens of other ships were sold since then and many of them are fully modeled in game and flyable.


I was reading about a problem they have when more than 16 people are in an instance and how performance goes out the window.


The real problem is the money going into the actors. That is going to kill this project. Hopefully Oldman , Hamill and Anderson are killed off in the first few missions of sq 42 so that we can get more content at cheaper prices.

or maybe chris and his wife can go back to Hollywood and let someone else finish this game for them.

 

[eastmen]

A friend of mine is in the first wave, so always gets to test any new content first. He always excitedly tells me of new developments. He remains a huge fan of this game and it's the only game he plays, and has been for at least a year now. I've told myself however that I will stay away from all space sims until I can play them in VR, and when that happens I'll look at which one offers the best experience for me then ...

Funny thing , you used to be able to play this game in VR but then they broke it and dispite us paying for the stretch goal of Vr they said during a live stream that they were no longer supporting it because it required to much power to run.

 

[Jupiter]

Stretch Goal was just for the Hangar Module

12 Million = "The Hangar Module will feature Oculus Rift support."

 

[eastmen]

Stretch Goal was just for the Hangar Module

12 Million = "The Hangar Module will feature Oculus Rift support."

which it no longer features. The hanger module still exists they removed the support over a year ago

 

[Malo]

Can we all just agree that some people didn't get what they were promised and are justifiably pissed off and some people are very excited by the prospects of what he's creating and move on? I'm really tired of this as it goes nowhere. I really enjoy coming here to see @Jupiter updates and really don't want 2 pages of butthurt every time.

 

[Grall]

I never got any of the rest no usb stick , no cd , no color map , no hardcover copy of the manual and no bronze citizen card.

That's pretty much outright fraud. You could report them to the cops for that.

Also, another violation of kickstarter TOS; projects are obligated to ship their goodies to pledgers.

 

[Jupiter]

Xiang Scout transformation (from me)

I like it. ^^


AtV 2.26 Fast Forward: Procedural Planet (41:32)

This procedural build is from a month and a half ago. They were kind enough to let Community share it. It's not even close to final, it's continuing development. It's showing things as they progress through development.

It is good to see that the physics collision on generated surfaces is working. There are also far terrain shodws.


CIG said about the ship reworks:
Rebuilding things is part of the process of literally any game ever. When you get in a car in GTA, that car's been redesigned 30 times. The only difference is with SC you see it. If someone's rewriting the code, they're doing their job. It's the difference between development and construction. Construction makes it all the way through. Development you're trying to create and discover the end result.

I also think that people should calm down a bit.

 

[Grall]

I also think that people should calm down a bit.

I think that when a game is two years plus behind in its previously announced schedule, those who paid* for it have pretty good reason to be upset. Especially if they're being refused a refund.

*Edit: speling.

 

[Jupiter]

How do you know it's true what he says? And if he had sold an Idris on the grey market like he said, he will have anyway made hundreds of Dollars profit.

 

[Grall]

What reason do I have to believe it isn't true? You're holding an impossible level of standard, and why - because you're in love with Star Citizen? You've long had smell of rabid fanboy about you, but this takes the cake.

 

[Jupiter]

He already lied about the ingame money one can buy. He said that he knows people who are buying the maximal UEC amount every month so that they can then buy all ships in the game at the beginning. But like I said. It is not possible to have more than 170 000 UEC. And one can probably only buy the cheapest ship with that.

 

[Grall]

How many ships you can buy kind of depends on how many more years the game's delayed, doesn't it?

 

[Jupiter]

Or you can almost buy all of them with ingame money later.
I'm curious if we can test it in 2.4 (next big update) with Alpha UEC.

Today they will publish the next big monthly report.


The Caterpillar is now in production. After that the resources are freed up to work on the Carrack.
Banu Merchantman, Orion, Endeavour and the Hull series are still in a holding pattern for production until the second half of the year.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

That's pretty much outright fraud. You could report them to the cops for that.

Also, another violation of kickstarter TOS; projects are obligated to ship their goodies to pledgers.

There's no fraud. They can't be taken to court. Well they can, but good luck winning a court settlement unless there was clear and provable fraud. Here's a hint, there isn't any fraud in this as CIG is attempting to create and finish the game in good faith.

If you invest in a company and the company goes bankrupt, you as an individual aren't getting any money back. Creditor's get some, but that's different.

If a publisher invests (funds) a game and they get no game, they aren't getting any money back.

Kickstarter, Indiegogo, and other similar crowd funding sites help developers find funding for their games.

They, and the people that use them to attain funding aren't lawfully obligated in any way to actually give product to anyone that helps fund a project, although they are likely lawfully required to make a good and reasonable attempt to fulfill their promises. Yes, the crowd funding sites have wording in there that their "obligation" isn't met until the promised product is delivered. But that isn't enforceable by them or by the law. The wording is in there to protect the crowd funding sites from lawsuits by making it clear that the responsibility is entirely on the person, group or company seeking funding.

Of course, people aren't likely to fund a project unless they are promised a tangible reward. Some still do, lots of projects get funding at 5 USD levels that have no other reward other than a thank you. Anyway, because of this, many levels of a crowd funded campaign will offer rewards either immediately or IF/WHEN a project is completed. That's the important part. There are no guarantee's that you'll ever get a finished product.

Just look at Kickstarter and Indigogo, there are plenty of projects that have been funded where no complete product has been or ever will be released. Sometimes you may have something that made it to the alpha stage, sometimes the beta stage, and sometimes just nothing at all.

I'm quite happy with my original funding of Star Citizen (I funded prior to them putting up the Kickstarter) knowing full well that there was a risk that I would never get a game. I did it mostly as a reward for making games in the past that I enjoyed, and partially in hopes of a future game along the same vein.

People that help crowd fund any project and thought they were guaranteed a game were just deluding themselves.

It's fantastic when it works out and a bummer when it doesn't.

Oh but people are buying ships, blah blah. They are still funding game development. They are pretty clear about that.

Just like a publisher. And just like a publisher, they may or may not get a game. They may or may not get a game they are happy with. The game may or may not get cancelled. The game may or may not get delayed.

Just about every Blizzard game ever created has been delayed. Not from a consumer standpoint but from a development and publishing standpoint. But since they don't give release dates ahead of time to consumers then consumers can't get their panties in a bunch when their projects are delayed. The publisher's however do. And publisher's then make difficult choices whether to continue funding, force and early release, or cancel.

With Star Citizen, everyone who has put money into it is part of the publishing "blob." But unlike a real publisher they can't force an early release or outright cancel the project. They can, however, stop funding if they no longer believe the project can be completed in a satisfactory manor. And just like a real publisher they can't get their money back.

TL: DR - Crowd funding something means there is no guarantee that you'll get what you funded. You are taking on the risk a Publisher usually takes. People that get burned, take note, publishers have had to deal with this for decades upon decades. Now you also get to feel the pain. Except without the potential of monetary rewards for a successful project but with all the potential heartache.

Regards,
SB

 

[Grall]

Kickstarter does require projects to deliver promised backer bonuses - it's stuff they added after some high-profile kickstarters imploded and people never got the stuff they were promised. It's shrinkwrap legalese, so its ability to hold up in court is dubious perhaps, but it IS there.

And as for good faith - you buy something (and you are for all intents buying goodies when you back a project to a particular funding level and get promised rewards as a result), and the project doesn't deliver for several years - who in their right mind would say good faith is involved? They're clearly fucking up monumentally. Where, in what other business could you make promises like that, take peoples' money and then not deliver on most, if not all on all of those promises for years, and still be considered acting in good faith?

This has the smell of Duke Forever or Infinum Labs all over it. Constantly starting work on new stuff and new even grander visions before any of the old stuff is done, repeatedly trashing assets and re-starting them and so on is signs of terrible project management. Feature creep seems to be the rule at RSI rather than exception. They haven't finished a single fucking module of the game yet have they, despite 5+ times more money than originally asked for and over a year and a half plus of work?

It's fishy, hella fishy if you ask me, and I'm not sending as much as a penny their way until the game ships. If it DOES ship it could be awesome as hell if it turns out as advertised, but the way they're running the project does not inspire any confidence at all that they'll hit that goal.

 

[Jupiter]

Erin Roberts leads the development of Star Citizen for one year. For the previous 10 years he was a director, responsible for how many LEGO games like Star Wars or Indiana Jones alone? Seven or even more. Which generated how much? More than a billion.

I think that is a lot more than you did in the gaming industry.

They spent one year to build the UK studio. Like Erin Roberts said it is important to get the right people because the wrong people can set the project back.

Part 1 of the interview with Erin Roberts at 22:00