*split* multiplatform console-world problems + Image Quality Debate

[Sigfried1977]

How is the sharpening filter going to look on TVs that provide another sharpening filter on top? 'Coz we're all looking at this on our monitors and tablets I guess, whereas Joe Xbox is going to be using his TV with whatever post processing that does.

Probably looks terrible to the trained eye. But considering Joe Xbox likely doesn't know let alone care about the side effects his telly's sharpening filter has on the final image, I'm assuming a bit of extra sharpening isn't going to cause him any sleepless nights either.

I mean when I walk into our playroom, I'm always rather baffled that the editors aren't the slightest bit bothered by the oversaturated, oversharpened and black crushing images on the tvs.

 

[Arwin]

That sharpening is really sad thing It really makes image to appear even lower res.. why dont they leave that kind of extra sharpening for player's to care, almost all tv's have very functional and adjustable sharpening control if you wish to use it.

That's exactly what happened with some streams I was watching comparing the Xbox One and Playstation 4 - they said the colors 'popped', but the aliasing was very off-putting. For them it felt like the 360 ... (that's partly Ghosts fault though). These were 360 guys though, and many of them indicated their friends were all getting a One anyway, and that was probably why they'd get one too (of those that didn't already have everything). But they also said that they'd probably stick to PC for some games, and Playstation 4 for others.

 

[dobwal]

That sharpening is really sad thing It really makes image to appear even lower res.. why dont they leave that kind of extra sharpening for player's to care, almost all tv's have very functional and adjustable sharpening control if you wish to use it.

Maybe MS didn't expect devs to target native 720p and the effect is amplified to the point of crappiness when trying to upscale to 1080p.

 

[Starx]

battlefield 4

xbox one retail version:

http://images.gamersyde.com/image_battlefield_4-23806-2689_0001.jpg

PS 4 review code:

http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/2/7/9/9/2/BF4_PS4_013.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1

xbox one review code:

http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/2/7/9/9/2/BF4_XO_013.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1

 

[Globalisateur]

They seem to be from Neogaf, so, maybe we can directly ask the person who made it.

EDIT:

PS4:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZgBVp7IQAAXQBg.jpg:orig

Man, that AA, such clean IQ ! I am going to get it on the ps4, even though I am not liking the game on my ps3. THe framerate is one of the problems on the ps3, though, which will get removed on PS4.Would like to see if the game gets fun after that.

They seems to have replaced FXAA (or raw blur?) by some morphological AA like SMAA.

What do you think about the new AA in action? SMAA T1x-ish?

 

[COPS N RAPPERS]

battlefield 4

xbox one retail version:

http://images.gamersyde.com/image_battlefield_4-23806-2689_0001.jpg

PS 4 review code:

http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/2/7/9/9/2/BF4_PS4_013.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1

xbox one review code:

http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles//a/1/6/2/7/9/9/2/BF4_XO_013.jpg.jpg/EG11/resize/1920x-1

The Xbox one version hasn't changed, the only thing separating them in the comparison is gamma and that only one is a direct capture, the other is from video. If you look at the ps4 version of that area, the textures are still apparent.

 

[Jedi2016]

(Re: Sharpen filter)^ Its probably baked into their upscaling tech, as its been in every One game we've seen so far.

That seems to be the case. I saw a comparison using an Xbox-sharpened image versus a native 720p image (if you set the console itself to 720p, it doesn't use the scaler). The native 720p image looked pretty soft when upscaled to 1080p, so this is apparently MS's solution to make it look more "on par" with a native 1080p render.

One game we're NOT seeing this on is Ryse... apparently Crytek used their own software upscaler to bump the 900p render up to the 1080p framebuffer, so the system's hardware scaler isn't used.

 

[djskribbles]

That seems to be the case. I saw a comparison using an Xbox-sharpened image versus a native 720p image (if you set the console itself to 720p, it doesn't use the scaler). The native 720p image looked pretty soft when upscaled to 1080p, so this is apparently MS's solution to make it look more "on par" with a native 1080p render.

One game we're NOT seeing this on is Ryse... apparently Crytek used their own software upscaler to bump the 900p render up to the 1080p framebuffer, so the system's hardware scaler isn't used.

Smart move by Crytek if true. I'm not a fan of the X1's scaler.

IMG]http://oi44.tinypic.com/10pvlae.jpg[/IMG]

The Xbox one version hasn't changed, the only thing separating them in the comparison is gamma and that only one is a direct capture, the other is from video. If you look at the ps4 version of that area, the textures are still apparent.

I think he's just showing the X1 version with a proper output. With matching levels, the PS4 and X1 versions look very similar. Most noticeable difference to me was the aliasing is noticeably worse on X1.

 

[COPS N RAPPERS]

Smart move by Crytek if true. I'm not a fan of the X1's scaler.

I think he's just showing the X1 version with a proper output.

That could be possible. the whole "retail version" and "review code" labels is correct in a "timeline" sense, but IQ wise Gamersyde's capture wouldn't serve that much of a purpose; only to prove gamma settings can be adjusted.

With matching levels, the PS4 and X1 versions look very similar. Most noticeable difference to me was the aliasing is noticeably worse on X1.

Lighting looks to be close or can be adjusted to parity. Aliasing And textures wise they look pretty much apart.


----------------------------------------

From what i can gather from this (using the PC version to judge off of) , it looks like they picked -

Xb1 - Lower native res, higher settings.
PS4 - higher native res, medium settings.


I'm guessing the Xb1 came out this way because they couldn't settle for 900p at optimal performance. using 720p they had enough performance to render more detail with the console.

 

[DrJay24]

What us "detail"? Unless the textures are different, they aren't, the PS4 has more pixels. I think it is just the sharpening or your imagination.

 

[zed]

wow couldnt they find a worse image to do a comparison on,
like inside a room at night with all the lights switched off

detail textures look like a different lerp
also adjust the game/brightness so both display the same

 

[Scott_Arm]

Yeah, why compare the Xbox One review code with the black crush issue instead of the retail one that is obviously the correct gamma?

 

[COPS N RAPPERS]

wow couldnt they find a worse image to do a comparison on,
like inside a room at night with all the lights switched off

Agreed. i wonder if there are any more done with better lighting.

detail textures look like a different lerp

That's what me thinks.

Closeup again.

what we're seeing is not the workings of XB1's ability to sharpen IQ. the xb1 by nature doesn't just "add" this kind of detail, it brings stuff out but not like this. The Xb1 version has different settings on.

the reason why is most likely what i said before.

[on a side note]
You could say This is probably a byproduct or a good example of what not choosing "console parity" can translate to; utilizing both consoles in other areas.

 

[DrJay24]

Agreed. i wonder if there are any more done with better lighting.



That's what me thinks.

Closeup again.

what we're seeing is not the workings of XB1's ability to sharpen IQ. the xb1 by nature doesn't just "add" this kind of detail, it brings stuff out but not like this. The Xb1 version has different settings on.

the reason why is most likely what i said before.

[on a side note]
You could say This is probably a byproduct or a good example of what not choosing "console parity" can translate to; utilizing both consoles in other areas.

What do you think you are seeing? What kind of optimization takes fake rocks from textures?

 

[RudeCurve]

Nice observation COPS! Different textures.

 

[djskribbles]

Yeah, why compare the Xbox One review code with the black crush issue instead of the retail one that is obviously the correct gamma?

Agreed. Terrible comparison.

I doubt they would put the PS4 version on lower settings just to run at 900p and have a smoother frame rate. And that doesn't look like lower settings, just different textures. If it was on lower settings, the media (including DF) wouldn't say that the PS4 version looked better.

The review builds were not final code either. The PS4 version had HBAO and the X1 version didn't have any AO. I hope DF does another updated comparison.

 

[Ceger]

What do you think you are seeing? What kind of optimization takes fake rocks from textures?

His point is different textures; X1 seems to have more details in the textures.

That's what I see. Not a huge difference, but it's there.

 

[RudeCurve]

His point is different textures; X1 seems to have more details in the textures.

That's what I see. Not a huge difference, but it's there.

Agreed

 

[DrJay24]

His point is different textures; X1 seems to have more details in the textures.

That's what I see. Not a huge difference, but it's there.

I'm sorry, but a texture is a texture, having a different one does nothing unless it is smaller or has less processing done to it. So how exactly does a different texture imply something has more detail? You guys are reaching for something that doesn't seem to be there. Maybe it is a wrong texture or maybe they are generated or randomized.

 

[RudeCurve]

It's not just different it seems there's more clarity to it as well which may point to the texture being higher resolution...