*split* multiplatform console-world problems + Image Quality Debate

[DrJay24]

well, lets see, you got any evidence to sustain that its not?

The burden of proof is on you, I made no assertion. Where did you get the idea the two are married together? Most XB1 games are upscaled and show no artifact of sharpening. One would assume Dice just applied a post processing sharpening.

 

[taisui]

The burden of proof is on you, I made no assertion. Where did you get the idea the two are married together? Most XB1 games are upscaled and show no artifact of sharpening. One would assume Dice just applied a post processing sharpening.

Okay then, this is purely software and has nothing to do with X1, woohoo, mystery solved.

 

[eastmen]

I thinks it ironic that when people point out kinect isn't really being used the rebuttal is you can lean or use a voice command - I would image PSeye could do both of these things.

Developers need to find interesting ways to apply Kinect, not bolt on check list type of stuff.

Eastman's example of the exercise title is somewhat interesting but it has additional monthly fees and has little utility if you don't want to work out. IMO its a fair critism to point out that at this point Kinect is doing very little to justify the additional cost of XB1 - that can of course and hopefully will change.

Dead rising is also cool. If you make noise in your room or house the zombies can hear it so if your sneaking you better be quiet !

Now i'm not saying the pseye can't do it but its still a cool feature

 

[temesgen]

Dead rising is also cool. If you make noise in your room or house the zombies can hear it so if your sneaking you better be quiet !

Now i'm not saying the pseye can't do it but its still a cool feature

We were just discussing the IGN video and Rude clarified that. In the video its not exactly clear what they are talking about, that could lead to some interesting AI options for developers, I'd like to see more of this in more titles.

On a related note what was your thoughts on the procedural stuff with the zombies? Are they on to something, does it make seem more lifelike or is it pretty superficial?

 

[TheWretched]

An unsharp mask filter (which looks very much like the results in the images we saw) is nothing special. I seriously doubt that it is due to any magic upscaler inherent in the Xbox One...

 

[taisui]

Kinda begs the question why the PS4 has a different look to it.

 

[RudeCurve]

Kinda begs the question why the PS4 has a different look to it.

Not to mention why some are posting "artificially sharpened" or "un-calibrated" PS4 shots...

 

[eastmen]

I haven't been paying much attention. Not getting one so .

maybe I will win one

 

[DrJay24]

Kinda begs the question why the PS4 has a different look to it.

It look very much like the PC version of the game. The question you should be asking is why does the XB1 version look different, it is the outlier. Why did Dice not just aim for the same IQ on all versions, why did they 'tune' a version to one extreme?

 

[Scott_Arm]

I think once the black crush is fixed, all three will look very similar with varying degrees of aliasing.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

Infinity Ward mentioned that they had some Microsoft engineers at their office for quite some time, I imagine the same is true at DICE. I'm fairly sure these people would be pushing for Xbox One specific image manipulation, as an attempt to make up for the deficit. Seems to be working on some folks too.

 

[Cyan]

Browsing the net, its just funny to see how many articles there are claiming resolution doesn't matter. Wow ! I was such a fool all these years spending money all over for a few pixels more. Apparently, we should have stuck with the CRT 480p TVs and Monitors , as we don't require more pixels at all. Why are all these people spending somuch on 1080p TVs, Blu rays, Blu ray players when pixels don't matter at all ! OMG the whole world is crazy over something they can't see !


Internet gets more weird each day. Anything to feel good about a choice u made already. MS must be so happy to see people defending them for free.

Atleast COD and BF4 have shown that the power difference between the two hardwares isn't just theoretical. Rational people can make a choice now.

Well, of course, that fact is common knowledge for tech savvy people..

However, I have some games running at native 1080p on the Xbox 360 -Sacred 2 comes to mind-.

My TV is native 1080p, and it's not that easy to spot the difference if someone doesn't tell you.

Rare has decided to run Kinect Sports Rivals at 1080p, but they mention they chose that resolution with a few reservations.

Speaking to OXM at a preview event today, Isaac also offered his thoughts on the tempestuous next gen resolution debate at large. The gist, for those heartily sick of the subject? Technical specifics matter, especially during a console's launch, but there's a lot more to a game than how many pixels it can push at once.

We're at 1080p, but to be honest that was because our rendering guys just wanted to be at 1080p," he said, when I asked whether Rare had been affected by recent controversies. "I think when you look at the platforms, now more than ever it's going to be about - OK, the graphics and resolution are part of the story, but there's also the service you have, the intuitiveness of the sharing, the multiplayer aspects of it.

"Years ago, when I was a kid, it was all about how many polygons you could push around, and everyone was pixel-counting," he continued. "I think that's still important, but it's much less of the story than it used to be."

"I think everybody always looks at numbers," responded Isaac. "If you think about photography and cameras, it's just megapixels, megapixels, megapixels. Can anyone really tell the difference between a 41 megapixel shot and a 21 megapixel shot? Probably not.

"It's going to be about supporting that box as it goes through its life, delivering those services and experiences, outside of just playing the game. With things like Game DVR, where you can upload your clips to the cloud. Stuff that we could only dream of last generation is going to be a reality this generation. I think that's really where the battle will be, but obviously initially everybody just wants to compare the numbers."

That's not to dismiss those for whom resolution is the more significant consideration, he qualified. "For some people that's going to be really really important. Some people will want to get high end PCs, and run at the highest settings they can, buy multi-thousand pound rigs to do that. But for myself personally, I'm more interested in the experience all around."

http://www.oxm.co.uk/65535/kinect-s...-important-but-not-the-whole-story-says-rare/

 

[Cyan]

I used to think that as well, for years really, since I've been gaming at 1080p for many many years now as I can't stand to even look at 720p personally. But when resolution on game after game after game after game, etc, on pc was never regarded as a bonus to image quality by gamers and gaming media alike, I accepted that I was a 1%'er in my thoughts on importance of resolution. Now enough years have passed and consoles are crawling into the world of 1080p so it's shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone that all those same claims and arguments over the years are being slowly turned towards console versions. It's all the exact same arguments, just a new target. To me the difference in 720p to 1080p is massive, to you as well perhaps. But we're just not the norm. I'm used to hearing that, been hearing it for years now. Like it or not, all console folk will have to get used to hearing the same claims now as well just like pc gamers had to in the past. It should be easier for console gamers though, at least you won't get called elitist for daring to claim resolution is important.

I had a friend in the Super Nintendo era who said that console games looked much better than PC games, despite them running at VGA -640x480- resolutions at the time. Come to think of it, maybe he had a point there. PC games just looked too pixelated then.

Xbox One architects themselves are pushing towards trading-off resolution for pixel quality, even when the GPU is freed up.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...unlock-more-gpu-power-for-xbox-one-developers

"We've chosen to let title developers make the trade-off of resolution vs. per-pixel quality in whatever way is most appropriate to their game content. A lower resolution generally means that there can be more quality per pixel."

 

[TheWretched]

Well... they sure want to make "their" version look best (I don't doubt Sony posted people at key developers, too). Personally, I don't like such filters at all, but there are more than enough people that like them... but how will it look on a TV where a person does like such filtering, when he/she has it already set to a setting higher than none? That would just make it worse... not sure if that's the best option.

 

[taisui]

I like the conspiracy theories and I like how those who can see the less noticeable sharpening but can't see the obvious blurring.

 

[Lalaland]

The blurring has been pointed out as motion blur in the cases of Irish hair, the effect wasn't in the XB1 build during that event but will be added in along wth AO for release. The overall softness is an inevitable artifact of upscaling and is present in the XB1 build too but I'm in the camp that prefers that to the halos and noise sharpening introduces.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

I like the conspiracy theories and I like how those who can see the less noticeable sharpening but can't see the obvious blurring.

You don't think the sharpening could be due to MS engineers? Seems coincidental that only the Xbox One version is effected.

 

[taisui]

You don't think the sharpening could be due to MS engineers? Seems coincidental that only the Xbox One version is effected.

I don't, if anything it's done by the hw upscaler. Business doesn't work this way, simply. Onsite people are there to support SDK issues, they don't tell DICE how to make their own game. It's also illogical that DICE would sharpen one version and not the other, if they think that this is the way to improve IQ.

 

[djskribbles]

Infinity Ward mentioned that they had some Microsoft engineers at their office for quite some time, I imagine the same is true at DICE. I'm fairly sure these people would be pushing for Xbox One specific image manipulation, as an attempt to make up for the deficit. Seems to be working on some folks too.

I find it very plausible that it was the MS engineers and I agree with your reasoning, too (though I'm not a fan at all of how it looks). But we will see if this is a trend with all multiplatform games... if it is, then it could very well be the scaler. IMHO, it's not a very good scaler if it introduces so many ugly artifacts like it does in BF4... too aggressive on the sharpening. I think something like Lanczos or Spline with moderate sharpening would've been better.

 

[DrJay24]

I find it very plausible that it was the MS engineers. But we will see if this is a trend with all multiplatform games... if it is, then it probably is the scaler.

Why would you not see it in all upscaled games? We have plenty of examples. So either it is tune-able via the scaler or other games are avoiding the hardware scaler.