*spin-off* Importance of Backward Compatibility Discussion

That's because productivity applications that people use again and again need to come with the users to new hardware. Most games are finished and done with, with a low priority of replaying years later. If I am looking for a new PC and my copy of Office and everything else wouldn't work on it, I won't buy that PC (reason not to buy a Mac). If I am looking to buy a new PC and my copy of Master of Orion or Star Control 2 doesn't work, I'm not that fussed. BC for productivity is a different kettle of fish to BC for games.
 
That's because productivity applications that people use again and again need to come with the users to new hardware. Most games are finished and done with, with a low priority of replaying years later.

So why even bother with things like Gakai and/or why is there any interest in that at all? Likewise, why do companies like Apple make sure their games are forward compatible on iOS if that's such a low priority to the masses? Why not just test productivity apps only for forward compatiblity and ignore games?
 
So why even bother with things like Gakai and/or why is there any interest in that at all? Likewise, why do companies like Apple make sure their games are forward compatible on iOS if that's such a low priority to the masses? Why not just test productivity apps only for forward compatiblity and ignore games?

Are these rhetorical questions?
 
Well, PS2 had BC and dwarfed the competition which had no BC.
Nintendo Handhelds had/have BC and dwarfed the competition which had no BC.
Only reason? surely not so, but its a big concern early on when hardware sales are slow and software is rare.

Saying investing in BC is not worth it is something that cant hold true, given that eg. Sony is providing a software emulator for their PS2 PSN titles.

What I would like to see would be a BC-attachment / SKU-option, that way the costs will be paid by those people using it. This would be the only way to put a number behind the worth of BC.
Saying "console buyers who bought console X bought console X" is a tautology, and doesnt conclude how many additional users would`ve bought console X or bought it way earlier.
I mean, why would apple need to run your windows apps/games, by that logic they still sell what they sell.
 
Well, PS2 had BC and dwarfed the competition which had no BC.
Nintendo Handhelds had/have BC and dwarfed the competition which had no BC.

Counterpoint: WiiU has BC and look at how they have done.
 
Its doesn't matter how many gamers want or wish for BC. Unless the lack of BC serves as a detriment to the growth of next gen console sales, its cost to implement will always serves as a barrier that will discourage manufacturers from offering it.

Many people may love the ideal of BC, but I doubt that comes any where near the number of people who love the ideal of bigger and better visuals. You can always keep your previous gen console, but you can't get next gen games without transitioning to next gen hardware.
 
Many people may love the ideal of BC, but I doubt that comes any where near the number of people who love the ideal of bigger and better visuals. You can always keep your previous gen console, but you can't get next gen games without transitioning to next gen hardware.

Aren't consoles the only devices left that don't offer bc with newer models? Pc's, laptops, tablets, phones, book readers, display devices, cable connections, satellite receivers, storage devices, operating systems, etc, everything nowadays seems to improve at whatever they do with new revisions and maintain bc in the process. Is there anything else out there that forces you to start from scratch aside from consoles? It just seems like such an antiquated way to operate.
 
Those other devices are progressive, getting annual updates which is completely different to a whole new generation of console hardware separated by 6/7/8 years and multiple hardware paradigm shifts. As long as consoles release with huge gaps and technology changes, BC will be a cost consideration. The logical change is towards a software abstracted platform, as discussed in the "upgradeable console" thread (or a shift to streamed gaming), which is a different concept and discussion to BC in a conventional console. As long as consoles are separated by such large gaps, the cost of BC is very high and generally not worth the cost. One can point to Wii and the ridiculous performance sacrifice made supporting BC instead of adopting contemporary, incompatible hardware.

It's worth noting that consoles (and 8/16 bit computers) have always been in a fairly unique position regards backwards compatibility. Display devices, satellite receivers, and storage have tended to have such slow transitions between paradigm shifts that they are mostly progressive (although we still have sudden changes without BC, like digital receivers and SATA HDDs, and even cars with unleaded petrol and catalytic convertors). The 8 bit era was the worst for devices being incompatible, which is part of the reason why PCs won out, because they offered consistency among other things. Modern tech like phones, tablets, and book readers are firstly too new to really suffer from hardware paradigm shifts requiring incompatibility, and secondly have started from a strong enough technology to support abstraction without crippling the hardware too much, thanks in part to an understanding of OSes that allow a lower impact by abstraction. But we still have plenty of BC issues. It's not like all Android apps run on all devices, and I can upgrade my phone and find apps that no longer work. Same with PC, actually.
 
I think some of that is applying the standards of today to decisions that were made before many of those examples existed or were popularized.

Console technology hadn't matured enough in terms of physical media (some kind of spinning disc), silicon integration, and the value of the software until the current gen, and the software and business side hadn't grown enough to make platform continuity (software development costs, online, digital downloads, media portals) matter until after launch.

At that point, the evidence is that the console makers knew it was a bigger deal, but the platform they have to be compatible with doesn't permit a compelling future.

The consoles have a legacy of being consumer electronics devices that only matured to computer-like functionality that permitted and made compatibility compelling more recently, and the big business of games only recently made not being able to leverage existing software more crippling than it used to be.

The time window for a change of heart was probably the hop from the PS2/Xbox to the 360/PS3. Unfortunately, the evidence didn't present itself until after, in part because current consoles helped make it happen.

The industry changes that have happened since showed silicon stagnation that prevented straightline performance increases needed for software emulation, the decline in all but a handful of software platforms, and the realization there is now bigger business in maintaining a locked-down online media consumption platform.
 
Counterpoint: WiiU has BC and look at how they have done.
I was talking about competing systems, not 5 year late still borns.

For a consumer, which sounds more appealing:
  • get a console that has access to thousands of games, many classics that can be had for cheap.
  • get a console that has access to a handful of expensive titles, many finished under time-pressure and a low expected sales.
  • get a console that has access to both of the above

Not everyone is an early adopter, and if they still to last gen for long that`s lower revenue than someone who occasionally spends some money on shiny new titles with more colors and crippled single player.

Its apparently fine if the level playing field is even (no-one offers it). Kinda like choosing which hotel you will stay, knowing that all hotels in that area have enough customers without spending on hygiene.
 
I was talking about competing systems, not 5 year late still borns.

For a consumer, which sounds more appealing:
  • get a console that has access to thousands of games, many classics that can be had for cheap.
  • get a console that has access to a handful of expensive titles, many finished under time-pressure and a low expected sales.
  • get a console that has access to both of the above
Those aren't the options though. The real choices are...


  • get a console that has access to thousands of games, many classics that can be had for cheap, but looks weak next to the competition and will provide an inferior experience over the following years
  • get a console that has access to a handful of expensive titles, many finished under time-pressure and a low expected sales, but which integrates the latest technologies and will offer the very best in the following years of use
  • get a console that has access to both of the above at considerable extra cost
It's a no-brainer that people would rather have BC than not, but not at the added cost for additional hardware, or the sacrifice to the hardware if the hardware is tied to legacy silicon. At least, none of the console companies see the public willing to spend an extra $100 or whatever on a console with BC, nor feel that their new consoles should be based on PPC/Cell.
 
What's more expensive for somebody who doesn't have neither console?

  • Get original console & new console without BC for $700
  • Get new console with BC for $600

or should I just get the original console & the competitor's console for $600 instead since that last one is not an option, it's much faster, more future proof & doesn't have a camera I don't want?

Yeah, not having BC just made your loyal fan base drop you like a rock. And by the time you can bring out your big franchise game a year later they will probably won't care anymore. Sounds like a great business move to me!

Tommy McClain
 
What's profitability if you're already beat before your system has even shipped? MS does not have a good excuse for the $100 premium other than Kinect. If they would have had BC, I think the premium would have been easier to stomach & could have saved face & market share. Or do you think they don't care about market share?

Tommy McClain
 
I don't think BC = market share. I don't think that has ever been shown with anything other than forum anecdotes.

If they don't sell every unit they make this year... maybe you can suggest it was because of the lack of BC. If they do sell every unit they make this year, what would BC have gained them? The same goes for price, if they sell every unit at $500, selling at $400 would just lose them $100 a unit.
 
I don't think BC = market share. I don't think that has ever been shown with anything other than forum anecdotes.

If they don't sell every unit they make this year... maybe you can suggest it was because of the lack of BC. If they do sell every unit they make this year, what would BC have gained them? The same goes for price, if they sell every unit at $500, selling at $400 would just lose them $100 a unit.

If they do sell every unit regardless, why not add 80$ BC and sell it for 100$.. or just ramp up production. Long term you need market and mind-share, and those are closely related.
 
Did the PS3 sell more consoles with BC or without BC? It seems to me like the consumers voted with their wallets. They much preferred the lower priced non-BC version.

And sure, not having BC may lose you some customers who jump ship to the other console, but having an expensive, hard to cost-reduce BC _will_ lose you customers over the life of the console. If the BC were essentially free, then you'd have a point. But it's not free.
 
For anyone advocating BC as standard, do you believe XB1 would sell more at $599 with BC than at $499 without?
 
Back
Top