*spin-off* Consequences for Failing in Games

Discussion in 'Console Gaming' started by obonicus, Oct 10, 2008.

  1. obonicus

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    I don't mind having my actions have consequences, I'd just rather die if I lose. I don't really buy the 'you don't die, this is better!' thought. It just seemed like exchanging one annoying feature (death) for a differently annoying feature.
     
  2. Chris123234

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    I never understood this mentality. I've always rushed to shut off a console when it was going to result in something very bad if I didn't kill it before it saved. I don't play games to be outraged and frustrated when all my progress is ruined because of some random occurrence and I don't really see why people would.

    You can always delete your character if you die if you really want some hardcore mode, i guess.
     
  3. Subtlesnake

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    When you 'die', you can perform a recovery, but it costs experience, and independently of this, the better you perform in combat (the more you mix styles, use special moves etc.) the more experience you get, and the more you can level up your character. And as you level up your character in the various disciplines, your appearance changes accordingly, so there's still a link between your appearance and how well you do in combat/what sort of player you are.

    Obviously that's ignoring the effect of the moral decisions you make, and your relative level of wealth.
     
  4. Shifty Geezer

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    What are the risks in this game then? There's no death, and no cost except XP, which you can surely gain by questing and stuff. It sounds like there's no reason to care what the outcome of a fight is, as you know you'll win eventually.
     
  5. Subtlesnake

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    Well, I think the focus of the game is building up your character - it is an RPG after all, and dying often should impede that.

    And the way I look at it, as a player you want to feel empowered, and combat is there to allow you to 'prove yourself', so when you fail, the failure is no less real, even though the game allows you to continue.
     
  6. obonicus

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    That's all games -- the only currency that matters is time.
     
  7. Acert93

    Acert93 Artist formerly known as Acert93
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    INTERESTING!

    Always curious how people play games and why. I have a friend who used to THROW controllers at the TV :lol: To me it is a game and I quite like there being consequences although I think the best balance is to allow gamers to choose to a degree (e.g. all unlocks open at the beginning or not). Allowing people, for example, to "restart" a race in a racing game allows the serious gamer to live with the race or the casual to "retry." Madden's and GRID's "rewind" features is neat in this respect--don't like a bad corner or play? Rewind and do it again! The more seasoned gamers of course lift their noses at such :razz:

    I don't see why they don't offer a choice. Choice is good, especially in a game about choice. Btw, the best of luck to Fran and Lionhead with Fable! Thanks for all the info and helpful posts over the years :smile:
     
  8. Tap In

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    I love those features and for people that don't like to get frustrated or do not have as much time to sit through hours of gaming, they are essential and brilliant additions IMO.
     
  9. aselto

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    I love when a game has deaths like Halo or God of War - you watch a short and sometimes interesting death animation and then you're instantly brought back to the last checkpoint, which was usually 2-3 minutes ago. It makes challenging parts enjoyable and not frustrating, as you don't have to go through nightmare waiting a minute or so of being able to play the game again. Ninja Gaiden series is a very strong offender, you have to wait so long. Or Prince of Persia Warrior Within or The Two Thrones - you had death animation + long game over animation + continue? yes/no + loading. So much time wasted while playing difficult (usually just poorly balanced) moments. I am so happy that the new PoP makes it a non-issue!

    It's a shame that Peter didn't inform as on what solution for death they settled as he seemed to pay so much attention to it last year. We'll find out soon enough I guess.
     
  10. RancidLunchmeat

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    There is no 'solution for death', that's the problem. A few months back I started to write a lengthy diatribe about death and the impacts on the game, mainly in response to my experiences in Bioshock (why die and be reborn in the chambers instead of restarting from a save point?), but as I wrote the message, I realized that ALL games are like that to some extent.

    The only thing they can do to relate death is to punish the gamer by making them re-do a lengthy process to return to the point prior to death.

    I think Obonicus put it perfectly. The only currency is time.

    The job of the game is to immerse the gamer in a situation so they don't want to die, regardless of the experience of death. To form a sense of bond with their character that loading saved files or restarting will break.

    I've mentioned before, I'm not a big RPG fan, Fable was the only one I had for my Xbox and it took me quite a while to figure out that I was playing a game. A game that had a defined set of rules and consequences and that dying wasn't really that bad of a thing. I didn't need to be as overly careful as I was, because death wasn't some horrible situation you couldn't recover from.
     
  11. Chris123234

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    That would just lead to overly cautious playing where you don't take chances. I play games to get away from hard consequences, not redo 30 minute missions from scratch. In fact, when I forget to save for 30 minutes and suffer a setback that requires that kind of replay, I usually turn off the game and call it a day. Quick Save please.
     
  12. RancidLunchmeat

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    Sorry Chris, that was exactly my point.

    That's why all these games have a 'death problem', it's not Fable specific.

    There's no way to simulate death except to 'punish' the gamer by making them repeat actions because as was stated beautifully above 'the only currency is time'.
     
  13. Chris123234

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    I don't like replaying long sequences of level over again for the same reason I don't watch the same episode of a tv show repeatedly.

    Take my XP or gold away, fine. It impacts me, but doesn't bore my damn brains out.

    Shorter replays are fine, but don't make me trek through 20 minutes of bullshit to try again.

    I don't need a game to somehow validate my self worth through the ability to beat bosses without problems.
     
  14. ShadowRunner

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    While many hated it i actually liked the way that Prey handled death. Playing a short minigame to recover your health and then continuing from the exact same place you died was great. Even though death only ment a short minigame i neva got to the stage where i didnt care if i died or not.

    I play games for the experience and dieing in most games is usualy designed to intentionally frustrate you as punishment. This actually takes away from the experience rather than enhancing it. There must be other ways to punish death that do not intend to frustrate, something like a minigame can work because even though being forced to do it may frustrate a little getting a full heath bar for comleting it can negate that and turn death into a positive thing. You still want to avoid dying at all costs because it makes you feel useless but it does not frustrate. Only problem is some games would become very short experiences if your not forced to play whole sections multiple times.
     
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