Sony's Cross-Generation Game Messaging [2021]

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by eastmen, Jan 6, 2021.

  1. eastmen

    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    12,718
    Likes Received:
    3,643


    :)
     
  2. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    13,566
    Likes Received:
    16,623
    Location:
    The North
    Asobo I believe on Series consoles need to port it to DX12 for it to run well.

    IIRC PC it's only DX11. Also likely requires some heavy CPU optimizations, IIRC @Dictator mentioned heavy CPU usage on the title.
     
  3. eastmen

    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    12,718
    Likes Received:
    3,643
    I think they were working on dx12 path for both consoles and pc.

    There are rumors that it might be a stealth drop during the MS show sunday or during their demo week stuff they are doing with the game show next week.
     
  4. DSoup

    DSoup X
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    15,302
    Likes Received:
    11,380
    Location:
    London, UK
    But in no way can anybody claim this game has launched "simultaneously" across platforms. This was just such a dumb thing for Phil Spencer to say. Maybe he's not into sims and this slipped his mind, whatever it was wrong and stupid.
     
  5. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Messages:
    18,473
    Likes Received:
    2,196
    Location:
    Maastricht, The Netherlands
    With all due respect but this discussion feels really stupid. Microsoft said their focus was going to be multi-platform releases for the first period. Which suits their vision of having an ecosystem that spans consoles and PCs, game pass etc where games can fairly easily scale although they don’t have to. It also doesn’t stipulate all versions need to be available day and date, I am pretty sure.

    Sony said they were going to have PS5 exclusives, because they want to also innovate and bring stuff to the new generation that wasn’t possible before.

    They never said they were going to ignore the PS4 from here on out, quite the contrary. For instance this article from early last year, nothing in there contradicts what is happening now:

    https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news...s_crossgen_games_risk_stifling_innovation.php

    And in a follow up article:

    https://www.google.nl/amp/s/www.gam...ing-that-can-only-be-enjoyed-on-playstation-5

    Which also very clearly states that PS4 owners will be supported for many years to come, as has always been the case in the entire history of playstation I might add.

    I genuinely don’t quite understand the point of this debate.
     
  6. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2002
    Messages:
    7,588
    Likes Received:
    4,537
    Location:
    Alma, AR
    Phil clearly qualified his statement about console gaming launching at the same time as PC. There are going to be PC games that don't make sense coming to console due to complexity or controls. So seeing PC games coming out first is no big deal & doesn't go against his comment. There might be have been a worthy argument if it was a console game coming out that didn't get released on PC at the same time, but that hasn't happened. Sounds like somebody has beef with Phil or having a bad day.

    Anyway, it seems Microsoft feels it can finally bring Flight Sim over to consoles & do it justice. Will be interesting to see how they pull off the controls. BTW, anybody played Flight Sim on the PC with a console controller?

    Tommy McClain
     
    PSman1700 and BRiT like this.
  7. Silent_Buddha

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    18,031
    Likes Received:
    8,246
    It's not the same as previous generations, however. Yes, they did continue to support 3rd party developers releasing titles on the older consoles. But, how many of their 1st party releases were released for both the old and new consoles after the release of the new console?

    So, it's understandable that when the head of PS very carefully chooses his PR wording to emphasize that there will be a clear generational line and that cross-gen games stifle innovation that this is deliberately meant to counter Xbox's messaging of cross-gen games for the first 1-2 years for 1st party titles.

    It was purely a PR move as the comments came out almost immediately after MS announced cross-gen support for that extended launch window. And it worked brilliantly ... until now when it turns out that Sony also planned to have cross-gen games for the first X years with many of their 1st party studios.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  8. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Messages:
    18,473
    Likes Received:
    2,196
    Location:
    Maastricht, The Netherlands
    But in those days they would still release games exclusively for the older platforms. The real change is that it is easier to do cross platform titles so games that would otherwise have been exclusive for one, including the old one, are now available on both.

    But the only real difference is the interpretation you give to this as being a deviation from their messaging. But if you look at the actual things Sony have said, you should probably realize that you are projecting your own expectations based on previous generations?
     
  9. Silent_Buddha

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    18,031
    Likes Received:
    8,246
    Yes, the fact that cross-gen games exist now that did not exist previously is the point. When the head of Sony PR, very deliberately chooses his wording to put cross-gen games in as bad a light as possible due to Xbox's messaging that cross-gen will be standard for the first 1-2 years, that was clearly a PR move to make people think that cross-gen game = bad and Sony won't be doing that because they have a "clear generational line" just like they did in previous generations.

    Basically past generations with very rare exceptions (almost all 3rd party games), a game was either the old generation or the new generation. Sony's head banked on that to score PR points by restating a dedication to a "clear generational line" as well as stating that cross-gen games stifle innovation. Statements that were timed to counter Xbox's messaging of cross-gen games for the first 1-2 years.

    Obviously it's not just me that took them this way as most of the users on this forum and the internet in general also took them this way. And how can you blame them when you consider past generational shifts and the timing of the message?

    All things that Sony's PR were counting on when they had him say those things.

    Obviously people like me that predominantly game on PC knew that this was all a load of PR baloney. Cross-gen games do not stifle innovation in anything other than graphics and presentation. :p

    Regards,
    SB
     
  10. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Messages:
    18,473
    Likes Received:
    2,196
    Location:
    Maastricht, The Netherlands
    Microsoft is the one that changed here, stating that they would not release anything exclusive for the Series X for the time being. It was this particular statement from Microsoft that made a statement from Sony inevitable, as journalists would ask them if they would do that too. They stated that no, they would release exclusives for PS5. And they did.

    Also, did you forget that cross gen wasn’t a realistic possibility for PS3 to PS4 due to the completely different CPU architectures? Even then Sony did release several titles from PS3 to PS4 that you could even download for free when you owned the PS3 version. Previous generations were backwards compatible fully or to some extent.

    Now for the first time, and this was a conscious decision by Sony, they have a fully backward compatible generation change on the software/OS level.
     
    DSoup and tuna like this.
  11. PSman1700

    Legend Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    5,056
    Likes Received:
    2,252
    It was sony that claimed 'we believe in generations' as opposed to MS's messaging to go cross-gen for a while (not a bad decision seeing how 'easy' it is to get any hardware). But no, Sony actually has basically everything cross-gen aswell. They could have been honest about it, but they werent. Now they are getting flak for it everywhere and rightfully so.
     
  12. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Messages:
    18,473
    Likes Received:
    2,196
    Location:
    Maastricht, The Netherlands
    That is just not true. Please bring the facts. State where they say what you claim. I searched and posted two examples of messaging which does nothing of the sort. And that’s just the first two hits.

    All I have read so far is that they would still be doing exclusives. And they have done exactly that. Nowhere do they say that from point x their first parties will only output PS5 exclusives.

    Go ahead, prove me wrong.

    And for the record, I have no beef in this. I think both Microsoft and Sony’s positions are valid. And both have done what they said they would do.
     
    milk, Cardassian Bob and vspectra like this.
  13. DSoup

    DSoup X
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    15,302
    Likes Received:
    11,380
    Location:
    London, UK
    Sony absolutely should be honest and more transparent about things like that. All the console manufacturers should. But let's look at facts on your "basically everything" claim here. Since PlayStation 5 launched in November, Sony have published the following games for the following platforms:
    • Sackboy: A Big Adventure - PS4 and PS5
    • Spider-man Miles Morales - PS4 and PS5
    • Demon Souls - PS5
    • Astro's Playroom - PS5
    • MLB the Show - PS4, PS5 and Xbox
    • Destruction All Stars - PS5
    • Returnal - PS5
    • Ratchet & Clank - PS5
    So more games not running on PS4 than are. Are there more PS4 games coming? Absolutely; Horizon Zero West, God of War and Gran Turismo are coming to PS4. That's not a lot of commitment so far from Sony, which has a lot of first party studios.

    I looks to me like Microsoft and Sony are largely doing the same thing, games that can be supported on lastgen hardware without compromising the vision/design of the game will get two versions where it's financially sensible to do so - and that will drop off over time. Games they don't, won't. The difference between Microsoft and Sony mostly seems to be that Sony did have some PS5-only games ready for the launch window and Microsoft did not.
     
    Arwin likes this.
  14. PSman1700

    Legend Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    5,056
    Likes Received:
    2,252
    Astrobot is a techdemo for the dualsense baked into every PS5, its debatable if that can be called one of their AAA exclusives. Destruction allstars aint no more then a multiplayer-only game resembling nothing 'true next generation PS5 game', its a flopped multiplayer project (the game needs bots to populate their servers).
    Demon Souls is a remake/remaster of a PS3 game, in that sense it aint an exclusive anymore since its the exact same game as the PS3 version with upgraded graphics.

    We have returnal and rift apart. Returnal is a true exclusive, though not really upto par graphics wise. Rift Apart so far is the only true AAA exclusive to the PS5, as in what Sony had us believe we should expect and no more cross gen (we believe in generations). That didnt really happen.
    Rift Apart's release is about 8 months into the generation aswell, but these days thats considered launch-window. Then again, even 3 to 4 years in is considered launch-window for games by some.
     
  15. DSoup

    DSoup X
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    15,302
    Likes Received:
    11,380
    Location:
    London, UK
    Nobody claimed any of the games were 'AAA' or successful, or in a launch window. You seem to be questioning Sony's commitment to PS5-only development and the list speaks for itself. The developers and publishers cannot know if the effort is going to be successful until it's released.

    This may shock you but your personal view of Returnal's graphics have no bearing on Sony's commitment to publish a PS5-only game, nor Sony's investment in Ratchet & Clank. Try to be less transparent about your obvious biases. Poor dodge trying to ignore Demon Souls.

    As former President Trump would probably say. SAD!
     
    tuna likes this.
  16. Karamazov

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    4,017
    Likes Received:
    4,030
    Location:
    France
    the outrage is limited to some forums and some twitter, the rest of the world does not care, thankfully.
     
    ethernity, Arwin and tuna like this.
  17. PSman1700

    Legend Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    5,056
    Likes Received:
    2,252
    Haha, lol. And thats all DS was about, its the exact same game, just better graphics.

    MS messaged last year that they would mainly go cross-gen for the first two years, meanwhile sony used that to respond with 'we believe in generations', while now almost everything actually is cross-gen on their platform aswell.

    Oh wow, like that huh. Now we know what where dealing with here.

    Goes for MS'es cross gen aswell.
     
  18. Karamazov

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    4,017
    Likes Received:
    4,030
    Location:
    France
    exactly, never seen this as a problem personnally
     
    PSman1700 likes this.
  19. PSman1700

    Legend Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    5,056
    Likes Received:
    2,252
    Me neither, yes i liked it during the 6th generation days, but back then scaling wasnt a thing like it is today (and hardware moved much faster). Better graphics will come eventually to all platforms, it has done so each generation.
     
  20. DSoup

    DSoup X
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    15,302
    Likes Received:
    11,380
    Location:
    London, UK
    Except for Demon Souls, Returnal and Ratchet and Clank which you seem happy to ignore because of reasons that do not align with your narrative.
     
    Cardassian Bob likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...