Sony VR Headset/Project Morpheus/PlayStation VR

[Egmon83]

Apply your logic to how Oculus is going to be worldwide at retail:
(-we don't have it in store)
-you want a game for Jimmy, we don't have it in store, but you can give him your credit card and he can buy the games by himself
-no we don't have the controller. yes a controller is included but its for Xbox, not VR games. unless Jimmy wants a videogame where he flies a spaceship? you need to give him your creditcard though
-do you know what processor you have, yes but the type, and the videocard? no I mean the number, no not the amount of RAM, the type number?
-does Jimmy want this or the HTC VR? He already has a smartphone? That's not what I meant, there are 2 VR solutions for PC. They both have different stores and games, yes. no they don't work together perse...

versus:
- you have a ps4?
-you have the camera? If you are not sure, you can buy it, and return if Jimmy already has it
-these are all the games, feel free to look around. on the box it says if the game uses additional controllers
-the additional controllers are 30 each, you can return them if he already has them
-we also have this bundle which includes everything
-with this prepaid card Jimmy can buy games digitally in the store

 

[goonergaz]

Jesus, PSVR is more complicated than PCVR now? Eastman hits a new low.

OT there will be pre-orders of the non camera version before launch. It is down to retail to clarify things with the consumer, this is a lot less confusing than the god awful X360 launch.

 

[Egmon83]

It has started!! :
http://www.gizmag.com/playstation-vr-review-hands-on-gdc/42321/

Lol at the letter aimed at Sony at the end
Expect a lot more of this.

In comparison: http://www.gizmag.com/oculus-rift-review-hands-on-gdc/42311/

 

[London Geezer]

Strange, It's the first time I see anyone reporting any sort of problem with Move or any tracking...

 

[orangpelupa]

Apply your logic to how Oculus is going to be worldwide at retail:
(-we don't have it in store)
-you want a game for Jimmy, we don't have it in store, but you can give him your credit card and he can buy the games by himself
-no we don't have the controller. yes a controller is included but its for Xbox, not VR games. unless Jimmy wants a videogame where he flies a spaceship? you need to give him your creditcard though
-do you know what processor you have, yes but the type, and the videocard? no I mean the number, no not the amount of RAM, the type number?
-does Jimmy want this or the HTC VR? He already has a smartphone? That's not what I meant, there are 2 VR solutions for PC. They both have different stores and games, yes. no they don't work together perse...

versus:
- you have a ps4?
-you have the camera? If you are not sure, you can buy it, and return if Jimmy already has it
-these are all the games, feel free to look around. on the box it says if the game uses additional controllers
-the additional controllers are 30 each, you can return them if he already has them
-we also have this bundle which includes everything
-with this prepaid card Jimmy can buy games digitally in the store

But Jimmy is not oculus' target market...

 

[eastmen]

Apply your logic to how Oculus is going to be worldwide at retail:
(-we don't have it in store)
-you want a game for Jimmy, we don't have it in store, but you can give him your credit card and he can buy the games by himself
-no we don't have the controller. yes a controller is included but its for Xbox, not VR games. unless Jimmy wants a videogame where he flies a spaceship? you need to give him your creditcard though
-do you know what processor you have, yes but the type, and the videocard? no I mean the number, no not the amount of RAM, the type number?
-does Jimmy want this or the HTC VR? He already has a smartphone? That's not what I meant, there are 2 VR solutions for PC. They both have different stores and games, yes. no they don't work together perse...

versus:
- you have a ps4?
-you have the camera? If you are not sure, you can buy it, and return if Jimmy already has it
-these are all the games, feel free to look around. on the box it says if the game uses additional controllers
-the additional controllers are 30 each, you can return them if he already has them
-we also have this bundle which includes everything
-with this prepaid card Jimmy can buy games digitally in the store

Its obvious none of you have ever worked retail. The argument isn't that little Jimmy will want a rift or vive over the ps vr. I never said that. Its some fantasy you've made up to try and make a point. The point is that the original bundle they were going to release is confusing for customers. Not everyone stays online and reads about gaming 24/7 . Grand parents will come into a gamestop or target with a list and no clue. They will buy what is written on the list. IF it says ps vr and the parent put $400 as the price they will not pay a dollar more. Even if the minimum wage clerk cares enough to tell them they need a camera they wont buy it.

IF you doubt consumers are that dumb then I feel bad for you. Go to a retail store and listen. I've rung people up and told them the price and they would give me the wrong money multiple times. I've had people go up to items that are in front of a sign that says buy one get one 50% off and grab a singular item come up , then I tell them you can get another one for 50% off and they say no just this. Then I ring them up and they get mad when its not 50% off and say the sign said 50% off. People are dumb and lazy , they will do the easiest thing for them with the least amount of work and the least amount of money.

The rift and vive preorders are targeting a different consumer. The items are expensive and online only and that should help avoid issues. However there will still be issues with people not having the recommended specs. With that in mind the Rift bundle has everything you need to play games. They didn't make a rift headset , xbox controller bundle and then sold the constellation tracking camera on its own. No its all bundled together reducing the confusion on oculus's end.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

Strange, It's the first time I see anyone reporting any sort of problem with Move or any tracking...

They seem to suggest that Move isn't as accurate as the DS4, so it sounds like they could easily replace the sensors in the last-gen Move with updated sensors. If that is indeed the problem.

This is part of the reason I'm holding off buying Move in its current incarnation.

 

[hughJ]

Strange, It's the first time I see anyone reporting any sort of problem with Move or any tracking...

The article is specifically talking about Golem, which the Tested guys also commented about. www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4b8dq8nSzY&t=26m4s

Not sure if that's just a demo environment issue or if the devs are attempting to do some sort of interpreted gestural system layered over top of the tracking (the video looks more like the latter, as tracking malfunctioning would look buggy rather than sluggish or unresponsive.)

To whatever degree that Touch and Vive may have superior motion controls, you also have to account for the fact that all Touch and Vive devs have an absurdly high bar for tracking quality (the limits of human perception, sort of quality), so it's possible that PSVR might see more instances of devs playing fast and loose with the otherwise 'hard rules of VR' that have been established on PC.

 

[Karamazov]

Preordered today at my local dealer. It's going to be a long wait now.
The girl told me that there were only 1500 left to preorder of the 3500 allocated to their franchise.

 

[bunge]

Preordered today at my local dealer. It's going to be a long wait now.
The girl told me that there were only 1500 left to preorder of the 3500 allocated to their franchise.

Was it a confusing process? Asking for a friend....

 

[London Geezer]

I'm also very much holding off on Move. I simply cannot believe that Sony wouldn't take this chance to release an ever so slightly upgraded version of it, which wouldn't affect compatibility with the older version.
The way this is heading, a lot of us will be giving out money to eBay users and not Sony.
It would be very, very unlike them to miss that chance on a high profit accessory.

 

[Karamazov]

Was it a confusing process? Asking for a friend....

what do you mean by confusing process ?

 

[Deleted member 86764]

The article is specifically talking about Golem, which the Tested guys also commented about. www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4b8dq8nSzY&t=26m4s

Not sure if that's just a demo environment issue or if the devs are attempting to do some sort of interpreted gestural system layered over top of the tracking (the video looks more like the latter, as tracking malfunctioning would look buggy rather than sluggish or unresponsive.)

To whatever degree that Touch and Vive may have superior motion controls, you also have to account for the fact that all Touch and Vive devs have an absurdly high bar for tracking quality (the limits of human perception, sort of quality), so it's possible that PSVR might see more instances of devs playing fast and loose with the otherwise 'hard rules of VR' that have been established on PC.

Around the 18:15 mark, the chap on the right seemed to think that the 90hz signal is rendering at 45fps on the PS4 and then using the "timewarp" to get it to 90. I think he's wrong with this.

I also think he's wrong when he suggests the 120hz games will always be upscaled from 60fps. It's true that most will, but simplistic games COULD also run natively.

 

[hughJ]

Yeah, I wouldn't view them as a reliable source for anything technical, I only posted that video because they happened to notice the same sort of problem with the same demo the article was referencing.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Not everyone stays online and reads about gaming 24/7 . Grand parents will come into a gamestop or target with a list and no clue. They will buy what is written on the list. IF it says ps vr and the parent put $400 as the price they will not pay a dollar more. Even if the minimum wage clerk cares enough to tell them they need a camera they wont buy it.

The value that retail adds is being able to engage and educate the customer directly, which is the disadvantage that Sony don't have unless a sale is make in one of their stores.

If there are people out there so incapable of understanding the requirements of PSVR (PS4 and camera being required, Move controllers being optional - 9 words) and you yourself, with all your experience of retail, cannot not educate them there I'd say there is nothing Sony can do at arms length.

But surely there can't be that many poorly informed consumers - although I accept that the education of your average consumer will depend in the store you work in and it's location. But here in Europe the principle of shopping in most cultures remains, and has been for hundreds of years, caveat emptor.

The rift and vive preorders are targeting a different consumer. The items are expensive and online only and that should help avoid issues. However there will still be issues with people not having the recommended specs.

You seem to have changed your tune from when took the position that PSVR is expensive because it's full of hidden costs (cameras, controllers, exterminators) and also bemoaning price comparisons given PSVR isn't launching until later in the year and inevitably PCVR will drop in price, now you're saying PCVR is expensive. In terms of B&M vs. online retail, PSVR is initially only being sold though Amazon (online only) and GAME (mostly online, some stores) in the UK. Online stores share the same problem as Sony's marketing in that it requires customers to read through all the information on the page to know if what they are buying will meet their needs.

Drawing on your experience on confused customers at GAMESTOP, I'm frankly not surprised your customers were confused because you can't seem to communicate any message consistently. I literally have no idea what your position is, other depending on the post, PCVR is priced reasonably or is expensive and is or isn't comparable to PSVR in terms of pricing because of the launch window differences. And problems that plague PSVR will magically not be a problem for PCVR even though there is the added complexity of CPU and GPU requirements / recommendations across the myriad array of PC specifications.

Amazing.

edit: typos.

 

[London Geezer]

The amount of bias and misinformation here is very depressing.

Nobody cares about uninformed customers.

What companies want is QUALIFIED prospects, as in people who can afford the product AND are interested enough AND know enough about it that they will go out and buy it. If people don't know enough, the company's job is to inform them.

What on earth is the point of banging on and on about the immaterial number of people who 'might not know' that the camera is required??

Sony's job is to inform them, and let's be clear, they will make that point very loudly for the next 7 months.

There simply is no point trying to discredit the product because some people might not hear that the camera is required. In what planet do you live in?

All the QUALIFIED prospects who are interested in PSVR will know that the camera is required between today (if somehow don't know already) and October. Like they will know that a bloody PS4 is required.

Just drop it.

 

[iroboto]

http://uk.ign.com/videos/2016/03/17/paranormal-activity-is-the-scariest-vr-game-ever-gdc-2016

WANT

Lol are you sure? Sounds like diapers may be a requirement.

 

[iroboto]

They seem to suggest that Move isn't as accurate as the DS4, so it sounds like they could easily replace the sensors in the last-gen Move with updated sensors. If that is indeed the problem.

This is part of the reason I'm holding off buying Move in its current incarnation.

This is fairly strong logic. If it's really inadequate wait for version 2.0:: much like how they released a wii+ module for better tracking

 

[iroboto]

Preordered today at my local dealer. It's going to be a long wait now.
The girl told me that there were only 1500 left to preorder of the 3500 allocated to their franchise.

Most certainly sold out before release. They're doing the right things for sure. The games coming out for VR are actually different from the games we play today, judging from what I've seen across the board so far, are a great edition to gaming experiences especially if people are bored with homogenous franchises.

 

[gmoran]

It has started!! :
http://www.gizmag.com/playstation-vr-review-hands-on-gdc/42321/

Lol at the letter aimed at Sony at the end
Expect a lot more of this.

In comparison: http://www.gizmag.com/oculus-rift-review-hands-on-gdc/42311/

Big thread on this at NeoGaf, Krejlooc see,ms to know what he is talking about, pretty sure he is a VR Dev (recall from previous threads).

Anyway his general take is that Move is accurate and that there are no fundamental issues, that Move should be roughly equivalent to Oculus Touch—they are using basically the same tech—but that Vive Lighthouse is a game changer and is very very accurate.

Here are his comments on Move:

when people talk about the accuracy of the hardware behind these motion controls, what exactly are they speaking about? Or do they not know? Because, hardware wise, there's not a whole lot of room for improvement with the method of tracking they've selected. They're using outside-in positional tracking with sensor fusion from an embedded IMU polling at 1000+ hz. Thats how we track position in space. That's the well understood, well implemented method.

****

When people talk about "better tracking hardware," they aren't talking about using better components. They're talking about conceptually changing the tracking method. Moving from outside-in to inside out, for example. Or perhaps using magnetic induction for tracking. There are significant trade offs which is why one chooses one type of tracking hardware over the other. Either logistical problems (inside-out) or interference problems (magnetic induction). Or latency problems (visual slam). Or drift (dead reckoning).

The problem with stuff like PS Move and Oculus Touch are related to the problems of outside-in tracking, namely occlusion. But as far as the ability to discern their place in space, they are rock solid, because the science behind the method is well understood and developed. Valve's lighthouse tracking is superior, not because it discerns it's location in space more accurately, but because conceptually it is closer to inside-out positional tracking than outside-in, which solves some occlusion issues. But, out front and center, in the open, if these trackers are trying to figure out their place in space, they'll all do it just fine.

These problems are either software driven, or environment driven. Sure, they could update the hardware of the move - I wish they would, so they could include a thumb stick. But the tracking hardware, there isn't much they could do that would improve it's ability to discern location in space. It doesn't matter that the wand came out in 2007 or whenever, it's not like this form of outside-in tracking has significantly advanced since then.

There are IMUs that poll faster than others, and gyroscopes that poll faster than others. But The Move already used IMUs and Gyroscopes at the faster end of the spectrum. A typical phone IMU polls at about 300-400 hz. The IMU in these devices poll at 1000+ hz.