Sony VR Headset/Project Morpheus/PlayStation VR

[orangpelupa]

but with all of the creative accounting in the hollywood....

btw even when sony overally is the toilet, the PS division is the sky high above. Don't they want to keep this status? To keep PS division stays high in the sky, and make it even higher to the outerspace?

 

[MrFox]

Why would anyone buy a psvr when they can have a better image quality on pc for thousands of dollars? Said the guy with eleven xboxes.

The split between pc gaming and console gaming is not only about price. Console gamers want the setup simplicity and long term upgrade cycle.

I game mostly on consoles despite my PC rig in my home theater.

 

[eastmen]

Why would anyone buy a psvr when they can have a better image quality on pc for thousands of dollars? Said the guy with eleven xboxes.

The split between pc gaming and console gaming is not only about price. Console gamers want the setup simplicity and long term upgrade cycle.

I game mostly on consoles despite my PC rig in my home theater.

You can get a long cycle in PC gaming also. For example the R9 290 came out in 2013 and is the recommended card for the oculus rift. So that's a nice 3 year stretch if not more before you'd have to upgrade.

With things like big picture mode in steam , the oculus experience and heck even the windows 10 tiles . Its not that hard to actually use a computer. I am sure most people have the required skills to click on a tile.

The only advantage the ps4 has is its price. But with new graphics cards coming out and amd perhaps finally competing with cpus the price to build an oculus or vive ready pc will go down. So too will the cost to buy a ready made one. I don't see the ps4 and ps vr droping as quickly as that.


Also I have 11 xbox 360s because I save money. I pay $9 a month for the cable cards. To have 11 boxes at my home all dvr capable i'd be paying a few hundred dollars a month. (I think a dvr on fios is $20 a month ) With my media center I can record / watch 16 things at once. So even if I have all 11 tvs going around the house I can still record 5 things.

 

[eastmen]

but with all of the creative accounting in the hollywood....

btw even when sony overally is the toilet, the PS division is the sky high above. Don't they want to keep this status? To keep PS division stays high in the sky, and make it even higher to the outerspace?

I'm not sure what your saying here. I don't think the PS division was high in the sky during the ps3 years , I believe they lost billions upon billions with that venture.

I'm not saying Sony is doomed. But I also can't see a company who has just come off years of losses to bet money subsidizing an add on for a console. I think sony wants this as a way to extend the life of the ps4 and to make money off it. Sony knows the vive is 800 and the rift 600. Even if they price it at 500 they are still $100 less than the competition and all in they would be at $850 just barely more than the vive. If they price at $400 they are $200 less and will now cost less than a vive all in.

I don't see any reason why sony would price this as a loss leader

Sony reminds me of Disney. So in the 80s before they had a huge hot streak with animated movies again they were doing really bad. But the corner stone the theme parks were bringing in lots of money. However once the movies started making money again they stoped investing in the parks. Disney has been doing that again in late 2000s early 2010s. Finally they are starting to invest back into the parks but Universal has caught up with its parks in many ways.

Sony has its bed rock of its Financial services and its camera business. But that wasn't enough for them so they keep trying to stay in markets they shouldn't be in. Thankfully they shed some of those markets but they are still in cell phones which they should get out of asap and to be honest they may want to just get out of the movie busniess

 

[MrFox]

They already said they would price it at cost.

Hence our previous discussion trying to figure out the BOM.

 

[eastmen]

They already said they would price it at cost.

Hence our previous discussion trying to figure out the BOM.

Ah well let me try then

Head set
Screen - $100
lenses $ 75
internal sensors $50


Two moves - $16 total
Camera - $30

Breakout box

Apu ? - $15


Prob $100 for the rest of the parts and liscensing for the ports and what not.

 

[Megadrive1988]

I'm expecting PSVR at $400 USD. I'm going with what Sony said about PSVR costing the same as a new console. I take that as meaning their current console, PS4, at its original price, $399.

 

[one]

The only advantage the ps4 has is its price.

Since I think these headsets are in different categories I'm not interested in advantages or comparison which can deviate from the theme of this thread, but one advantage or differentiation point is exclusive games as you mentioned in your other post about the only game they make that appeals to you which was cancelled (which one?). It's not very likely that they'll show all of the launch titles at the GDC event before E3, but the exclusive titles they have except for Gran Turismo Sport are the prime concern about PSVR. If they can nail it other things such as the screen spec will become trivial.

Personally I hope free VR add-on for already released games, just like the first person mode of the GTA V. Even that kind of thing can boost PSVR sales.

 

[Egmon83]

I don't mind dumping money into hardware , I have ssd's I have expensive cpus and motherboards , I have hotas set ups and eyefinity monitors. The ps4 offers none of the bells and whistles of a pc and never will. In the fall when the next gen video cards are out , I will buy one and drop more than the ps4 and most likely playstation vr costs combined so that I can play the newest games in quality settings a ps4 owner can't imagine.

You could buy all the GPUs in the world, but that would never change the fact that your (preferred) Oculus will ship with pentile diamond screen.

In a previous post you were thinking DS4 and The Xbox One controller were similar for VR because the Xbox One controller has a tiny ir led used for identifying which player is which through Kinect... That actually makes you the preferred customer for Oculus; people willing to throw around money on hardware, not fully aware of shortcomings, or the competition at all. The Oculus Lighthouse alternative mode featuring 2 cameras has never been demonstrated as working, let alone comparable to Lighthouse, yet you think it will offer the same experience.
In fact, you are probably the very reason why they jacked up the price to 599, and even had the courage to ship with mandatory non-VR controllers. All your setups, monitors, SSD's, controllers, and so on are probably a testament to that.
It's probable that in 1 year PC-'fans' will have 3 VR controllers: First the Oculus, then the Vive as well because it will be the better option on content, controls and the rest. Then in februari 2017 they buy the non-pentile Oculus which promises improved image quality..

 

[cheapchips]

Ah well let me try then

Head set
Screen - $100
lenses $ 75
internal sensors $50


Two moves - $16 total
Camera - $30

Breakout box

Apu ? - $15


Prob $100 for the rest of the parts and liscensing for the ports and what not.

$100 too high for the screen probably? A curved 5.1 inch 1440p screen is around $80.*

PSVR has a relatively low pixel density at 5.7 inches. The refresh rate is obviously a confusing factor though. Not sure if there are other devices running at 120Hz?

*pulled from a random s6edge BOM article. May be lies.

 

[eastmen]

$100 too high for the screen probably? A curved 5.1 inch 1440p screen is around $80.*

PSVR has a relatively low pixel density at 5.7 inches. The refresh rate is obviously a confusing factor though. Not sure if there are other devices running at 120Hz?

*pulled from a random s6edge BOM article. May be lies.

I base the screen cost on the fact that its a 5.7 inch non pentile oled running at 120hz. Are there any screen matching that description in any tear down ?

You could buy all the GPUs in the world, but that would never change the fact that your (preferred) Oculus will ship with pentile diamond screen.

In a previous post you were thinking DS4 and The Xbox One controller were similar for VR because the Xbox One controller has a tiny ir led used for identifying which player is which through Kinect... That actually makes you the preferred customer for Oculus; people willing to throw around money on hardware, not fully aware of shortcomings, or the competition at all. The Oculus Lighthouse alternative mode featuring 2 cameras has never been demonstrated as working, let alone comparable to Lighthouse, yet you think it will offer the same experience.
In fact, you are probably the very reason why they jacked up the price to 599, and even had the courage to ship with mandatory non-VR controllers. All your setups, monitors, SSD's, controllers, and so on are probably a testament to that.
It's probable that in 1 year PC-'fans' will have 3 VR controllers: First the Oculus, then the Vive as well because it will be the better option on content, controls and the rest. Then in februari 2017 they buy the non-pentile Oculus which promises improved image quality..

Do you have a link to the pentile screen fact ? You through it around all the time but oculus has yet to say anything about the screens.

Also with multiple cameras the oculus rift does something the sony vr will never be able to do. It really doesn't matter what the vive can do and its been said before from valve that multiple light houses are to extend the room scale.

As for upgrades , that's what makes the pc great. If I want an even higher res screen or the new features I don't have to wait another 6 years until Sony releases a new system with a new psvr. I'm not bound by 3 year old hardware to play the games that I like. If I want to spend the money on hardware to run with all the bells and whistles and large amounts of FSAA I can . I don't have to run it at low resolutions with artifacts from repojection to make up for the fact that its ancient hardware. Not only that but if I do want to keep the rift for 6 years , I can and all the while the hardware to drive it better gets cheaper and cheaper and I continue to get a better experience. That is the benefit of the PC , something the PS4 can't offer. Sony is very lucky the pc headsets are coming out now because if they came out a few months later sony would get compared to rigs running the new graphics hardware and it will be an even more lopsided experience.

 

[goonergaz]

The only advantage the ps4 has is its price.

1) Price
2) Exclusives
3) Potential customer base
4) Ease of use
5) Fixed hardware (so more consistent experience for end user)

 

[goonergaz]

As for upgrades , that's what makes the pc great. If I want an even higher res screen or the new features I don't have to wait another 6 years until Sony releases a new system with a new psvr. I'm not bound by 3 year old hardware to play the games that I like. If I want to spend the money on hardware to run with all the bells and whistles and large amounts of FSAA I can . I don't have to run it at low resolutions with artifacts from repojection to make up for the fact that its ancient hardware. Not only that but if I do want to keep the rift for 6 years , I can and all the while the hardware to drive it better gets cheaper and cheaper and I continue to get a better experience. That is the benefit of the PC , something the PS4 can't offer. Sony is very lucky the pc headsets are coming out now because if they came out a few months later sony would get compared to rigs running the new graphics hardware and it will be an even more lopsided experience.

Well I think PS4 will be coming within 6 years lol

If they do this right we can have step upgrades, so PS5 would be a nice upgrade and then PSVR2 would also be a nice upgrade, every ~3 years a step upgrade.

 

[goonergaz]

No there won't. The people buying Vive and OVR aren't the audience for PSVR, and wouldn't be the slightest bit affected by PSVR's price. No-one with a decent enough PC and enough money to preorder one of the other headsets is going to be looking enviously at a 1.8 TF PS4 with an inferiorm cheaper headset.

I do tend to agree, but there will be a chunk of people who might switch or have now been priced out of the PC version (will ultimately wait for price drops on h/w). My son and I were interested in going halves but have now decided it's not worth it, we will stick with PS4 (for now anyway).

 

[one]

http://www.roadtovr.com/valve-steamvr-htc-vive-hands-on-gdc-2015-stage-constant-presence/2/

From my time in the Vive, I believe the sub-pixel structure is PenTile, just like Crescent Bay.

If they use RGB screens they'd advertise them as such by now for those who love the highest spec

 

[eastmen]

1) Price
2) Exclusives
3) Potential customer base
4) Ease of use
5) Fixed hardware (so more consistent experience for end user)

The Rift and Vive also have exclusives.

The potential customer base of the rift is gigantic steam gamers with powerful enough hardware are over 20m and growing.

The rift and pc are easy to use. There is nothing hard about it

The fixed hardware is ancient and can't be upgraded. Its also far behind in power compared to the recommended graphics from the pc head set makers and the gulf will only get bigger

Well I think PS4 will be coming within 6 years lol

If they do this right we can have step upgrades, so PS5 would be a nice upgrade and then PSVR2 would also be a nice upgrade, every ~3 years a step upgrade.

But PSVR didn't launch with the ps4. So I doubt a new one will launch with the ps5 . If it does that's going to be a big ask for a new headset plus a new console. Add to that , if they go with an apu again they will again be behind pc vr from the start. Lets not forget the market size gets reset to 0

I also believe that Sony wants to keep the life of the ps4 for as long as they can. Anytime they have been sucesful they try to ride it until it breaks and I'm sure they are extremely scared of a new generation since its a tough time and they can loose the market share they have.

 

[eastmen]

http://www.roadtovr.com/valve-steamvr-htc-vive-hands-on-gdc-2015-stage-constant-presence/2/
If they use RGB screens they'd advertise them as such by now for those who love the highest spec

So nothing from Oculus then right ? I'd wait until its announced or people have hands on with the final hardware before calling it. I've used one of the engineering samples of the cv1 and if its pentile there is no way to tell from looking inside it.

Even if its pentile from people using the vive and rift impressions say they are better looking than psvr .

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But PSVR didn't launch with the ps4. So I doubt a new one will launch with the ps5.

That's not really a correlation. PSVR wasn't ready until 2 years after PS4, so it couldn't have launched alongside. A headset will be possible alongside PS5. A better comparison is EyeToy/PSEye. EyeToy didn't launch alongside PS2 but the improved version was released simultaneously with PS3.

Add to that , if they go with an apu again they will again be behind pc vr from the start. Lets not forget the market size gets reset to 0

That can be circumvented by forwards compatibility. Too many unknowns to talk about PS5 - it shouldn't really be part of this PSVR conversation (goes to goonergaz too).

 

[goonergaz]

The Rift and Vive also have exclusives.

Yes, but nothing as popular as Sony could deliver IMHO

The potential customer base of the rift is gigantic steam gamers with powerful enough hardware are over 20m and growing.

So a whole half the PS4 base (which is growing quicker)

The rift and pc are easy to use. There is nothing hard about it

I can assure you the plug and play PSVR is easier to setup and use

The fixed hardware is ancient and can't be upgraded. Its also far behind in power compared to the recommended graphics from the pc head set makers and the gulf will only get bigger

Never stated PCs not more powerful, just that as the h/w is fixed the experience should be more consistent - like most console games...no fiddling to get the right performance...much tighter QC

But PSVR didn't launch with the ps4. So I doubt a new one will launch with the ps5 . If it does that's going to be a big ask for a new headset plus a new console. Add to that , if they go with an apu again they will again be behind pc vr from the start. Lets not forget the market size gets reset to 0

I didn't say that, I'm suggesting (like PSVR) Sony allow PSVR1 to run on PS5, this will allow the games to have a better performance - then release PSVR2 and get another 'upgrade' down the line.

 

[eastmen]

Yes, but nothing as popular as Sony could deliver IMHO


So a whole half the PS4 base (which is growing quicker)

Those are just users with steam installed. There are many more without steam that can go out and get a rift or vive

I can assure you the plug and play PSVR is easier to setup and use

I don't know about that. The rift requires you to plug in 2 usb ports. The psvr has a break out box you need to hook to the side of your ps4 , a camera you hook up to the back of it , then you have to plug the headset into the break out box.

If your talking about pc software. Its not very hard. Plug in your rift and launch the software. Its pretty easy.

Never stated PCs not more powerful, just that as the h/w is fixed the experience should be more consistent - like most console games...no fiddling to get the right performance...much tighter QC

Eh you don't have to fiddle on the pc anymore. AMD has software where you can just optimize your software with a click of a button. The majority of games will default to the best settings for your hardware also.

I didn't say that, I'm suggesting (like PSVR) Sony allow PSVR1 to run on PS5, this will allow the games to have a better performance - then release PSVR2 and get another 'upgrade' down the line.

But you'd split the base which gets rid of the fix hardware advantage.