Sony Posts its numbers

[eastmen]

They actually were, but I'd question how many people actually knew about it.

I was 15 with no credit card so i didn't know about them !


The only reason i even invest in bluray is because DD are so screwed up.


I can take my bluray and load it onto my home server and watch it anywhere in my houes and anywhere i have internet connections. until dd offers me that i will be forced to buy blurays.

of course i'm sure i'm not using the blurays as the movie studios want. i'm sure they'd want me to have to buy it on every media device i have and then when they become obsolete they'd want me to rebuy it again.

 

[patsu]

Where did I ever suggest disney couldn't afford anything? I was wondering how blu-ray could be more profitable than DVD per item given the way they are pushing it. (Giveaways, coupons)

That leaves DVD with 9.9 billioin USD. So that leaves BRD at just a tad over 10% of DVD revenue. So it would be preposterous to think BRD is making a larger profit for movie studios considering BRD remains more expensive to both master and manufacture.

I'd have to agree with others that while BRD may finally be picking up some momentum, it's still a disappointment and if it weren't for the movie studios trying to phase out DVD, might not even be as popular as Laser Disc was at its height.

See Amazon's response (4 times the amount before they bought Blu-ray). The business people will calculate their marketing spent based on earnings. Also, businesses won't phase out DVD if consumer interests remain strong. They switched to Blu-ray because if offers growth.

For Laserdisc vs Blu-ray:
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/hig...essed-more-2-years-than-laserdisc-decade.html

 

[AlphaWolf]

Then see Amazon's response (4 times the amount before they bought Blu-ray). The business people will calculate their marketing spent based on earnings.

Which in no way addresses margins...

<edit> and that amazon comment thing has the reek of lying with statistics... there's a number of ways they could derive that from something completely obvious (ie. a person who buys a new truck spends more on gas)

 

[patsu]

Which in no way addresses margins...

<edit> and that amazon comment thing has the reek of lying with statistics... there's a number of ways they could derive that from something completely obvious (ie. a person who buys a new truck spends more on gas)

If Blu-ray doesn't make money, Amazon will look for something else to sell. There is no need for them to lie in the public. If they can derive more demand from Blu-ray as a whole, the higher margin/price on DVD will only entice more to go Blu-ray. Without the price comparison, fewer and fewer people buy DVD anyway.

 

[joker454]

I haven't seen an invoation since the walkman from sony

They still do well in the video camera realm. For example, the new optical image stabilization on their handycam models like the cx550v is far better than the competition.

 

[eastmen]

They still do well in the video camera realm. For example, the new optical image stabilization on their handycam models like the cx550v is far better than the competition.

the new canon's offer better low light than the point and click sony camera's. I also know when i bought my hf11 video camera 3 years ago the canon's had the better low light conditions and stabilization in them.

I'm sure in the camera world things flip flop alot and models over lap others , but i'm not going to claim that better blacks of stabilization is innovation , they are just evolution

 

[patsu]

Not entirely. Blu-ray is still less than 10% of DVD volume. Sure, it's growing, but nowhere near the rate promised by Sony and Disney to the other partners. DVD growth is shrinking faster than Blu-ray is growing. A year ago there were still more standalone HD DVD players in the US than Blu-ray players. (Note this was more than a year after the BD format "won") And when you counted in PS3 and the HD DVD addon, BD only wins by 2%.

a) The reason HD DVD ownership jumped is because Toshiba remarketed their current stock HD DVD players as high end DVD players, and you could find them for a song (Same for the HD DVD addon - it was selling for like $20 in Frys) and you could buy the movies for $5 each.

11% of Americans own a HD DVD player ? 30 million units ? Since when did Toshiba and MS make so many HD DVD devices to begin with. At its height, Toshiba only sold 600K players and 300K HD DVD addons in US _total_.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/19/live-from-toshibas-hd-dvd-press-conference-in-tokyo/

Q: How many HD DVD players and recorders, exactly, did you sell?
A: 600,000 players in the US and 300,000 Xbox 360 HD DVD drives. 100,000 units were sold in Europe. And about 10,000 players and 20,000 recorders in Japan. So about 1,030,000 units worldwide.

Based on 1 million sales worldwide including the money losing $99 player, Toshiba went ahead to make 29 million players (incur more losses) and sold all of them as DVD player ? ^_^ The online survey may be flawed.

In 2007, Toshiba cut their player sales forecast to 1 million in NA by end 2007:
http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/toshiba-cuts-hd-dvd-forecast-as-sales-jump/

They failed to meet that target. Why would they go back and make 29 million units for no reason ?

It is impossible. They didn't have 29 million Blu-ray diodes at that time. It was hard to make. The survey can be thrown away.

By all the metrics originally put forward by the BDA, Blu-ray has been a huge flop. Remember, even Laserdisc lasted 20 years...

As to the FUD, there were deceptive campaigns waged by both sides.

Such as ?

 

[AlphaWolf]

If Blu-ray doesn't make money, Amazon will look for something else to sell. There is no need for them to lie in the public. If they can derive more demand from Blu-ray as a whole, the higher margin/price on DVD will only entice more to go Blu-ray. Without the comparison, fewer and fewer people buy DVD anyway.

Without real sales data from them, there's not much to discuss about it, it was just my impression. DVD sales had to shrink the back catalog has been exhausted. In 10 years or so blu-ray sales will be shrinking for that same reason.

 

[patsu]

DVD sales had to shrink the back catalog has been exhausted.

The Hollywood makes new movies every year. >_<

 

[AlphaWolf]

The Hollywood makes new movies every year. >_<

Which account for a small % of the total number movies available. When DVD sales peaked do you think those numbers were all on current titles?

 

[corduroygt]

a) The reason HD DVD ownership jumped is because Toshiba remarketed their current stock HD DVD players as high end DVD players, and you could find them for a song (Same for the HD DVD addon - it was selling for like $20 in Frys) and you could buy the movies for $5 each.

Regardless of what they do, dead format is dead, it's unlikely that enough people bought those things to make such an impact, or enough of them were sitting unsold in the first place.

And b) Say what?? I was in the Microsoft HD DVD team from close to inception until it's death, and we never demanded any VOD rights, and also did not "leave" until _after_ Toshiba conceded and said they would not be making any more devices. We were quite invested as a company in the format because it meant licensing revenues for us. We were working on multiple different players for multiple manufacturers on the day that Warner stabbed us in the back with their Sony Cash suitcase. Don't come to me insinuating that MS was not fully invested in the format. /rant

If you were in the team, you weren't really in the negotiations with the studios then were you? Also did you see the suitcases of cash Sony gave to Warner? Unlike the Paramount deal, no cash was given to Warner. WB said themselves that they didn't take any money and their financial statements didn't show it either.

By the way, Blu-ray revenue marketshare was 17% for this black friday, compared to 12% for last years black friday. So it's growing.

 

[patsu]

Which account for a small % of the total number movies available. When DVD sales peaked do you think those numbers were all on current titles?

DVD sales decline for a number of reasons. Back catalog is only part of the picture.

The unit price has dropped over time. It's cheapest ever today with RedBox DVD rental going for $1, $1.50 for Blu-ray, and $2.00 for VUDU. More people rent now.

For people who buy movies, more are shifting to Blu-ray.

Hollywood formulae getting stale may be part of the reasons too.

 

[Toaddio]

Is there a way to report, like, 57 posts without having to report them all individually?

Go team go!

 

[AlphaWolf]

DVD sales decline for a number of reasons. Back catalog is only part of the picture.

The unit price has dropped over time. It's cheapest ever today with RedBox DVD rental going for $1, $1.50 for Blu-ray, and $2.00 for VUDU. Plus more people rent now.

For people who buy movies, more are shifting to Blu-ray.

Of course more are shifting to blu-ray.
1) It's really hard to grow marketshare when you have near 100% of it as DVD did.
2) When companies like Disney make their movies cheaper on the format it actually makes sense to shift. If I was going to buy beauty& the beast it would have saved me $3 to buy the blu-ray over the DVD.

Hollywood formulae getting stale may be part of the reasons too.

I don't think quality has all that much of an effect, some, but not huge.

 

[patsu]

Of course more are shifting to blu-ray.
1) It's really hard to grow marketshare when you have near 100% of it as DVD did.
2) When companies like Disney make their movies cheaper on the format it actually makes sense to shift. If I was going to buy beauty& the beast it would have saved me $3 to buy the blu-ray over the DVD.

Blu-ray is already gaining before Disney's offer. The studios just want to convert as many as possible (and as quickly as possible), hoping that some of these people wiill also convert part of their private collection to Blu-ray.

I don't think quality has all that much of an effect, some, but not huge.

More people will rent or skip.

And we also forgot about the pre-owned market.

 

[corduroygt]

I personally haven't seen a movie worth owning after the Dark Knight.
This year, it's inception (yes, I'm a sucker for Nolan), and I'm looking to upgrade my BTTF collection to Blu-ray. But not until the prices are cheap.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Blu-ray is already gaining before Disney's offer. The studios just want to convert as many as possible (and as quickly as possible), hoping that some of these people wiill also convert part of their private collection to Blu-ray.

Actually blu-ray was pretty stagnant (they reached a share of the market and sat there for about a year) until the combo offers (and dvd release delays) started. Of course they want to get the collection out as fast as possible, the window is limited for blu-ray to get money at full price. Some new format or Digital is going to pressure potential future profits down the road.

More people will rent or skip.

And we also forgot about the pre-owned market.

I suppose. Not sure how prevalent pre-owned is for movies, I imagine those discs are badly trashed.

 

[patsu]

Which combo offers ? and which DVD release relay ? Disney's family movies do not quite match the early adopter profiles for Blu-ray. The scifi films and animes do better on Blu-ray and were gaining more traction overall. The family sector (children's films) takes more time to grow:
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/hig...-penetration-rises-62-5-m-shipped-2011-a.html

First led by studios that specialized in family entertainment, such as Disney and DreamWorks Animation, more studios are taking a chance with children’s fare on Blu-ray.
“We understand it’s an emerging market trend,” said Kristin Moss, VP of marketing at Lionsgate.“Children’s always tends to lag behind in home entertainment trends, from VHS to DVD and DVD to Blu-ray.”

According to their stats so far, digital distribution has only affected rental so far (likely due to DRM). Even then RedBox has gained share despite NetFlix and other DD providers coming to the market.

 

[eastmen]

Whose combo offers ? and which DVD release relay ? Disney's family movies do not quite match the early adopter profiles for Blu-ray. The scifi films and animes do better on Blu-ray and were gaining more traction overall.

According to their stats so far, digital distribution has only affected rental so far (likely due to DRM). Even then RedBox has gained share despite NetFlix and other DD providers coming to the market.

I've been getting combo offers for over a year. In fact from what I can see the disney releases since 2007 have been 90% combo and same with pixar. Its really only the first pixar movies like cars out on the format that aren't combo disc.

Inception comes with bluray , dvd , dd , batman returns came with bluray , dvd and dd and so did avatar .

Seems like all the block busters are coming with combos because it makes them sell.


you allways avoid my question. When they sell a combo , is it a bluray sale , a dvd sale , a dd sale ? Which when does it count for or does it count for all 3 formats ?

If it only goes to bluray how can you not see that its meant to skew the data to make it look like its doing better.


As for redbox doing well , its simple , content providers give redbox new releases before netflix . Netflix is only good for older movies and tv shows at the moment. Other DD is priced to high when compared to redbox. Why pay $4 for a movie rental when you can get one for $1 as you buy grocerys .


If they priced DD properly for both rentals and purchases you would see large growth there.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Which combo offers ? and which DVD release relay ?

These Combo Offers

Some movies are also delayed to DvD, snow white and beauty & the beast are a couple I can think of that were released on combo 2 months before the DVD only issue.