That's not quite true, they still release DVD only copies, but about 2 months later, and actually for slightly more money than you can get the blu-ray combo pack if you include their $10 discounts.
Sony Posts its numbers
- Thread starter eastmen
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That's not quite true, they still release DVD only copies, but about 2 months later, and actually for slightly more money than you can get the blu-ray combo pack if you include their $10 discounts.
We were talking about innovation though. Blu-ray is a large scale innovation.
I don't think Blu-ray is the source of Sony's headaches. ^_^
They have larger issues in size, cost, lack of focus, etc.
Without Blu-ray, Sony may be able to launch PS3 earlier, and cheaper. OTOH, they can't outspend MS in buying exclusives, or in marketing, or in Xbox Live. There'd be fewer differentiators for them to play with in the long run.
That's because consumer needs are evolving. And prices of course will go down when it enters mass market. Not sure why you're complaining. ^_^
Digital movies get bundled with Blu-ray because the former wants to leverage on the latter's player growth. Given downloadable movie's highly fragmented market (thanks to DRM), they need a unified format like Blu-ray to help grow the base. NetFlix was the first company to figure that out, while Hulu, Vudu and AppleTV took a different route.
DVD gets bundled because there is no portable Blu-ray player. In due time, we may only see Blu-ray and digital copy since the portable player market may go fully digital.
Whether Sony is in shambles, I think the market will decide. If they can't make it despite recent improvements, then they suffer the consequences. ^_^
The point was: Sony did innovate.
EDIT:
eastmen said:
*If* Disney chooses to go Blu-ray exclusively, then it means they see it as a new source of growth for their company. Not because they want to skew the numbers in favor of Blu-ray to fool you.
do they now ? All the advertising for beauty and beast came out and the only thing on store shelves were blurays.
So either way your skewing towards bluray over dvd
Of course one can argue that bluray isn't innovative . After all we had a blue laser hd format competeting with it. in some ways hd-dvd was the better tech.
The ps3 would have been able to release in 2005 at a lower price tag or release in 2006 with a lower price tag and perhaps more ram that would have set it apart from the 360. MS simply came into the market and did exactly what sony did upon entering it. use its money to make itself heard. Sony bought exclusives with the ps1 and ms has done just that with the 360. I think however that the wii shows you don't need to buy exclusives to make a market for yourslef
Its to make bthluray more valuable because the market isn't choosing it like sony and its partners would like. when bluray first came out they claimed they wanted to avoid the pricing problems with dvds. the prices came down to quickly both to quickly for the hardware and software.
Its obvious that the same has happened with bluray even more so because you need to included the kitchen sink
bs , i have a portable bluray player , we use it on road trips to keep my nephew quiet. Portable blurays entered the market faster than portable dvd units. once again there weren o vhs tapes bundled in
I haven't seen an invoation since the walkman from sony
dvd beauty and the beast
Oh I agree, seems they are definitely still trying to push blu-ray acceptance.
corduroygt
Banned
Volume is not very meaningful. Revenue wise, Blu-ray is about 20% of DVD. Studios make more profit off each Blu-ray disc. But yes, the video disc market is in a slump, at least in the US.
Those results are extremely suspect. I looked at the PDF of that survey and HD-DVD ownership jumped from 6% to 11% from 2008 to 2009. It's obvious that either people misunderstood the survey question, or the control group was not really random. Why would ownership of a confirmed dead format double?
Let's also not forget that Microsoft was never interested in HD DVD, and they demanded exclusive VOD rights in exchange for supporting HD DVD and when the studios said no, they left and Toshiba suffered.
I'm not sure how revenue is that much higher on blu-ray when they are many cases where the blu-ray combo pack is actually cheaper than the stand alone DVD. (Disney gives all club members a $10 coupon on new release combo packs). Disney is even giving away blu-rays (have to pay for shipping) in some cases.
… and in others Blu-ray is the better tech. Unfortunately, the market and industry only need one movie format.
It is futile to keep Blu-ray price artificially high. It's a mass market product. The consumers will decide how much they are willing to pay. DVD sales is declining, they need a new platform to generate demand fast. While Blu-ray may not grow as fast as some desire, it is helping the industry earn more $$$ these days.
I'd be interested in the kitchen sink version if you can find one for me.
Only if you buy the entire world's supply of Blu-ray. You need more people to buy portable Blu-ray player. ^_^ In the mean time, they bundle DVD to sidestep that problem. A studio exec mentioned this in Blu-con.
As for Blu-ray being an innovation…
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=5389
a) The reason HD DVD ownership jumped is because Toshiba remarketed their current stock HD DVD players as high end DVD players, and you could find them for a song (Same for the HD DVD addon - it was selling for like $20 in Frys) and you could buy the movies for $5 each.
And b) Say what?? I was in the Microsoft HD DVD team from close to inception until it's death, and we never demanded any VOD rights, and also did not "leave" until _after_ Toshiba conceded and said they would not be making any more devices. We were quite invested as a company in the format because it meant licensing revenues for us. We were working on multiple different players for multiple manufacturers on the day that Warner stabbed us in the back with their Sony Cash suitcase. Don't come to me insinuating that MS was not fully invested in the format. /rant
Yes the emmys . Thats so great , did they forget to mention that there was also hd dvd that came out first and had blue laser and increased storage capacity.
As for the kitchen sink edition , its call the bluray dvd combo pack . I just got fantasia for $20 bucks. It has fantasia bluray and dvd , fantasia 2000 , bluray and dvd , a disc of extras and digital downloads.
that is the kitchen sink edition . Now considering it was the same price as the dvd only verison which do you think the consumer is going to buy ?
Its simply a marketing tatic to inflate blurays numbers. We've had this discusion many times , but of course when the price diffrence ranges from $5 cheap to $5 more expensive someone will take the bluray edition over the dvd verison add into the fact that the dvd edition is now delayed months for some products and you see that its just a scam for them to make a product look more sucesful than it actually is.
It may also be a problem of MS execs badmouthing packaged/physical media in those days. They were sending 2 conflicting messages:
(1) Support HD DVD vs
(2) Support streaming because it will kill packaged media soon
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Ah, that bit was in reference to the BK giveaway numbers (3k a month) without regard to units given away in other promotions (Oprah, other retailers, other talk shows, etc.) Oh crap, I just realized my math above was wrong.
It isn't 45k USD a month in lost sales, it's 450k USD a month in lost sales, ooops. And using a completely made up and hypothetical number for cost of Kinect (100 USD) that would be an overall loss/cost of 750k USD a month (cost + lost sale) just from the units given away.
Never said spending money on marketing was bad. But the large amount of money MS is pouring into this indicates they are shooting for more than just selling all units they can produce.
And that was only to prove the point that Sony wasn't necessarily spending too little money as some people were suggesting.
Regards,
SB
Innovation is orthogonal to who comes out first. Blu-ray has higher storage capacity using the same diode, plus better content support, and better distribution strategy. It is relevant to their industry.
And you're unhappy because ? The studios have enough margin to cover their cost. In the latest Blu-con, Amazon mentioned that Blu-ray buyers spend 4 times the amount on software after they bought into Blu-ray. It's a long term relationship. That's why the studios and retailers are eager to rope people in. Amen.
why are you quoting me and linking that? If you want to comment do so, I'm not going to sift through somewhat related crap to try to figure out your point.
They give you an idea of the current Blu-ray revenue since you are not sure if Disney can afford the marketing.
Where did I ever suggest disney couldn't afford anything? I was wondering how blu-ray could be more profitable than DVD per item given the way they are pushing it. (Giveaways, coupons)
and hd dvd had better feature support , content support , distibution and manufacturing stratagy
amazon was around in 1996 when dvd first came out ?
Of course bluray player buyers are buying more content , they are new to bluray owners. DVd owners in 2010 will have gone through multiple players at this point.
The fact is that bundling dvds into blurys sku's the numbers
1) When you bought a dvd you would only get the dvd , they never bundled free vhs's in teh package.
2) When selling a bluray with a dvd included you now take away a sale for a dvd only disc.
3) Disney and other big names are delaying dvd only releases by months now
4) The bluray with the dvd is often priced with in $5 of the dvd only or sometimes is even cheaper
5) add those 4 together and you paint a very skewed image o what the actual uptake of bluray is .
I'm sure if every time someone bought a movie on xbox live they were then sent a bluray and dvd for free we'd see a diffrent picture of the up take of DD movies. I know i'd never go to the store and puchase a bluray or dvd cause i could watch the movie that night and in the mail get the bluray and dvd .
The numbers the bluray camp are spouting are inflated numbers and they are doing so because its not living up to expectations
Silent_Buddha
Legend
AlphaWolf's response was to this...
So I'm not quite sure how your links bolstor Corduroygt's claims. In fact they go on to bolster AlphaWolf's point in questioning Corduroygt's claims.
As the PDF specifically has...
DVD, BRD, and DD reaching 12.6 billion USD.
BRD reached 1 billion USD.
DD reached 1.7 billion USD.
That leaves DVD with 9.9 billioin USD. So that leaves BRD at just a tad over 10% of DVD revenue. So it would be preposterous to think BRD is making a larger profit for movie studios considering BRD remains more expensive to both master and manufacture.
I'd have to agree with others that while BRD may finally be picking up some momentum, it's still a disappointment and if it weren't for the movie studios trying to phase out DVD, might not even be as popular as Laser Disc was at its height.
Hell, it's only anecdotal evidence so shouldn't be used in any serious discussion, but in my circle of friends and family, only 1 household has a BRD player. Yet quite a few enjoy HD video whether it be through cable, satellite, VOD or EST. Might not be technically as good as BRD, but it's certainly good enough for the majority of people. And even with that, they haven't been convinced to buy BRD for archival purposes, but still buy DVDs if they want to own a physical copy.
Regards,
SB
They actually were, but I'd question how many people actually knew about it.
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