Sony PlayStation VR2 (PSVR2)
- Thread starter snc
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They say gaze tracking, so this would be dynamic foveated rendering.
As for rumble, that is a weird one. For me, not even for health reasons, but just cuz it seems like a bad idea to be shaking something that's sitting on your face when it has displays in it and you need to have it positioned properly to access the sweetspot in the lenses. So I'd assume we're talking some very subtle effects or something.
I dont think there's any single figure you could use for foveated rendering. Like, a lot will depend on how good the eye tracking is and how optimized/developed the software side is(there's also potentially CPU costs). You could go quite cautious and see modest gains, or go really extreme and get massive gains. There's also problems with going extreme that we dont deal with in real life - aliasing. Reducing resolution heavily causes shimmering and whatnot that would be noticeable in our periphery. So there's also a quality tradeoff you might have to make, potentially limiting gains.
And it probably needs to be really responsive. It's not easy or it would have been done extensively already. I don't expect a software cost for the tracking, the hardware will just output the parameters that you need to determine where the graphics rendering can be less precise. I imagine that you could use this to make custom image reconstruction algorithms that keep low resolution at the periphery of where you are looking, because that area of the eye is more sensitive to movement, where the center of your vision is more sensitive to detail and thus could be updated less but render more detail, through reconstruction and/or additional data like motion vectors etc that we already see used in DLSS? Also the circle of how sharp you need to render could be larger or smaller depending on head motion, which also ties in nicely with image reconstruction. Some interesting possibilities here ...
If they do have it, they also probably could do automatic ipd adjustment so that's nice.
And I would expect a relatively large field of view, or there would be relatively little point in having gaze tracking in the first place?
If they do have it, they also probably could do automatic ipd adjustment so that's nice.
And I would expect a relatively large field of view, or there would be relatively little point in having gaze tracking in the first place?
cheapchips
Veteran
The focused part of your field of vision is surprisingly small at 7 degrees (white cone). Foveated rendering would be useful even if the overall field of view isn't much bigger than PSVR1. I'm expecting/hoping it to be closer to the Index though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AP_-_Peripheral_Vision.pdf
will have to see how good the gaze tracking is. I hope they hit it out of the park. There are a few other headsets coming out in 2022/23 that have it as a feature including two portable ones that are using it to overcome the processing deficit .
I dunno man i couldn't imagine your head constantly vibrating being a good thing. Isn't that part of the issue with football players. Its not so much the big concussions although they are bad but the constant banging of your helmets over and over again ?
Anyway this looks like a great $300-$400 headset later this year or early next year. Lets hope they also have a great tracking solution
Dude,... Concussions from haptics, new level of FUD achieved. That would be something else if it was plausible. I doubt this could ever even happen even if someone tried. Some government instance would forbid importing/selling such device.
Football, boxing, mma,... The hits there are "just a little bit harder" than for example ps5 controller can provide. I doubt they would put a sledgehammer into headset. Apparently mma has less concussion issues than football. There is something real bad happening in football. It's pretty insane considering explicit mma knockout video in spoiler (Dude gets hit fcking hard, head bounces from canvas and extra fist to face to finish the job. Crazily enough mma is more safe than football and boxing based on cte statistics.
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snc
Veteran
lmao, are you serious with this
I'm sure that this haptic feedback will be subtle and couldn't create later chronic traumatic encephalopathy ;dcheapchips
Veteran
I haven't played with the dual sense. How good are it's haptic motors? Could it create a rain drops sensation or, erm, can't think of anything else.
snc
Veteran
quite good, yes they can mimic rain drops effect (astro bot, returnal), this effect on helmet could be awsome
Really hope this is true, foveated rendering is a no-brainer for a console and if done right could mean visuals are barely compromised relative to a conventional, screen-based counterpart. Putting aside the effective difference from having your face up against the screen of course. I think it needs to be in there tbh, this is a fixed platform and the PSVR2 will likely have to last 5yrs. Getting this feature in as standard from the off would be killer.
I just hope Sony and/or devs can develop effective filtering for the lower res or lower shade rate periphery to avoid temporal instability; as that will be distracting. I believe Nvidia were using AI to do this in a prior demo.
Don't forget that eye/gaze tracking can have functional gameplay implications too. Would be cool in a multiplayer to know if an enemy is looking at me when he snuffs me out point blank with a DEagle.
This is dream stuff really, eye/gaze tracking + foveated rendering, wider FOV, 2Kx2K per eye. Haptics, adaptive triggers, gesture tracking, AN ANALOGUE STICK ON BOTH CONTROLLERS!!!
As for the wire, honestly I'm not too bothered; and hopefully when wireless is technically and financially feasible for their system they'll offer a wireless add-on (they'd do well to make the cable detachable and perhaps forward-engineer the device to fit or dock a wireless transmitter/battery).
It's also my understanding that transmitting competent video + interaction data between the PS5 and the PSVR2 headset will likely require a wireless standard that either isn't widely approved across territories yet or has only just been approved; and so may not have been feasible to add in...?
I just hope Sony and/or devs can develop effective filtering for the lower res or lower shade rate periphery to avoid temporal instability; as that will be distracting. I believe Nvidia were using AI to do this in a prior demo.
Don't forget that eye/gaze tracking can have functional gameplay implications too. Would be cool in a multiplayer to know if an enemy is looking at me when he snuffs me out point blank with a DEagle.
This is dream stuff really, eye/gaze tracking + foveated rendering, wider FOV, 2Kx2K per eye. Haptics, adaptive triggers, gesture tracking, AN ANALOGUE STICK ON BOTH CONTROLLERS!!!
As for the wire, honestly I'm not too bothered; and hopefully when wireless is technically and financially feasible for their system they'll offer a wireless add-on (they'd do well to make the cable detachable and perhaps forward-engineer the device to fit or dock a wireless transmitter/battery).
It's also my understanding that transmitting competent video + interaction data between the PS5 and the PSVR2 headset will likely require a wireless standard that either isn't widely approved across territories yet or has only just been approved; and so may not have been feasible to add in...?
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Its not FUD its a simple question. How often are Humans subjected to a constant vibration directly to the head ? Remember people will be in VR for hours. I play 20-30 hours of vr a week.
Yes the hits in Football are harder. But there are levels of how hard a person's head is hit in something like football. Its also continual sub concussive hits that are an issue also https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/141/2/422/4815697
I am just asking if having something on your head constantly vibrating will lead to repercussions down the road when a person uses it for hours a day for possibly years or decades.
MMA is most likely safer because the MMA fighter is in fewer fights a year. The average for profesionals being 2-5 a year. Training is done as sparing and will use safety gear and will limit strikes to the head. Football now has 17 games per team a regular season and the majority of practice is full contact. This starts at a young age also . I started playing with full pads in 5th grade.
I think the vibrations would be very subtle. If you have headphones with a headband, tap your fingers on the band and earcups... but I won't take responsibility if you get concussion
snc
Veteran
mma fights can be safer couse there are more way to end fight like chokes, armbars etc. that are not cousing damage to your brain by head shocks, also even considering striking you can target effectivly legs with low kicks and win fight this way, in boxing you usually get more punches on head during fight
not really a fan of either. I am just pointing out that its not just concussive hits to the head but non concussive and the more frequent the worse it is . I am not saying the vibrations will cause damage from the head set. I am just asking if its safe. I have never had anything on my head for hours a day that vibrates.
I will be interested to see how its implemented and what comes out of it
snc
Veteran
I'm sure there will be option to disable hapticks on headseat :d
snc
Veteran
to be honest I think if you would drive every day on gravel road or boat on high waves there is some risk
I get you two are trying to be funny , but again none of these are directly applied to your head for sustained periods of time. The body itself has evolved mechanisms to absorb shock through out the body. So force applied to your feet while walking is applied through out your body and will just destroy your knees unless its over whelming force. When driving on a gravel road the car itself is designed to absorb shock and then the chairs are also designed to do so before anything gets to your body.
Even things like massages only last for limited amounts of time and people wont do that every day for hours on end
It seems like I'm not the only one to question it
https://academic.oup.com/ageing/article/38/3/254/16658
http://bme.sunysb.edu/people/faculty/docs/crubin/safety-1-11-06.pdf
snc
Veteran
@eastmen my last post wasn't joke
btw
https://www.roadtovr.com/researchers-head-mounted-haptics-combat-vr-discomfort-walkingvibe/
I didn't know there were research that haptics reduce discomfort in vr, great to hear
btw
https://www.roadtovr.com/researchers-head-mounted-haptics-combat-vr-discomfort-walkingvibe/
I didn't know there were research that haptics reduce discomfort in vr, great to hear
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