Sony PlayStation cross-platform game strategy

As some point, a Shader Pre-Caching option category appeared in Steam's settings. This seems to be enabled by default so why is this not solving the problem? Who do you have to sacrifice for the stuttering madness to be fixed? :-?

Looking at the settings options for it, it appears to only apply to Vulkan and OGL. So that doesn't help with the majority of games that use DX.

Regards,
SB
 

Yeah, I wish more games did like Warframe. Basically, after any new major patch that alters shaders, implements new shaders, etc., the patcher will give the user an option to clear the previous cache and create a new shader cache prior to the game being run after that patch. If you choose not to do that then it'll compile the shaders as they are called while you are playing.

Doing it prior to game launch after a major patch that does that can take up to 5-20 minutes, but then there are zero stutters in game.

Regards,
SB
 
As some point, a Shader Pre-Caching option category appeared in Steam's settings. This seems to be enabled by default so why is this not solving the problem? Who do you have to sacrifice for the stuttering madness to be fixed? :-?
That's been there for ages and only applies to Vulkan/OpenGL games.

It really comes down to changing the mindset of some of these companies about what is acceptable or not. People simply have to stand up and say no more of this. Then things can get solved. I heavily believe the largest bottleneck to "fixing" this issue is quality assurance.. and I'm not specifically talking about the QA departments themselves, but rather somewhere in the chain a failure to act on issues such as this, if they are caught and brought up. Unreal Engine DOES have a way to pre-compile and cache shader.. but it seems it's a hassle for developers to constantly collect PSO data.. and some don't do as good of a job of it as others. Hopefully the studio in charge of porting Sackboy have done their best to ensure it isn't an issue.

Sony's PC ports have been pretty fantastic overall regarding this specific issue. When you look at Spider-Man and Nixxes.. the way they do it is IMO, perfect. In the interview with Digital Foundry the first thing they said about it is "we had QA play the hell out of our game, basically"... and that generates as much of the PSO data as possible, then that data is shipped with the game, and loaded at loading screens or in the background during gameplay.

If you look at what Epic seems to be proposing with UE5.1 and their Automated PSO gathering feature... it essentially sounds like it's going to do exactly what Nixxes does in their games.. but perhaps will make the process more transparent.

Funny how this wasn't a concern for Epic until people started associating all the stuttering to their engine..... now suddenly we're seeing movement on that issue... ;)
 
Epic seems to be proposing with UE5.1 and their Automated PSO gathering feature... it essentially sounds like it's going to do exactly what Nixxes does in their games..
Funny how this wasn't a concern for Epic until people started associating all the stuttering to their engine..... now suddenly we're seeing movement on that issue... ;)

Took someone else to do the right thing for Epic to act up.
 
Took someone else to do the right thing for Epic to act up.
It took Alex Battaglia to bring it to the consumers attention. Then people started commenting all over the web and then a negative narrative started to form around their engine.

That, IMO, is what's really helped pushed things into action. It's not a good look when people start saying things like "ugh, Unreal Engine... brace for stutters"... when a PC version of a game is announced...


What I don't understand is why Epic isn't contacting some of these studios and working with them to ensure their UE4 games aren't falling into the same trap.... until they can get the automated PSO gathering feature out with UE5.1.


The simple fact is that now there are SO many games using this engine... with AAA studios abandoning their proprietary engines at an alarming rate... that the issue simply cannot go ignored any longer.

Hopefully the automated PSO feature solves most of this issue and we can go back to being excited about how amazing Unreal Engine actually is and what it's capable of.
 
What I don't understand is why Epic isn't contacting some of these studios and working with them to ensure their UE4 games aren't falling into the same trap.... until they can get the automated PSO gathering feature out with UE5.1.

Probably to say 'yeah we fixed this on our own' kind of stuff.
 
Probably to say 'yeah we fixed this on our own' kind of stuff.
Well, it basically comes down to being cumbersome for developers to properly do in the current iteration of the engine. It's simply not ideal, and sadly this means that a lot of studios probably lean towards the "this is good enough" camp instead of doing more.

If Epic can essentially automate the entire thing and make it as effortless as possible... then they'll deserve praise for that.
 
It really comes down to changing the mindset of some of these companies about what is acceptable or not. People simply have to stand up and say no more of this. Then things can get solved
Gamers en masse have no conviction. People don't even stop pre-ordering games.

What is it about DirectX that means Steam's option only works with Vulcan?
 
Gamers en masse have no conviction. People don't even stop pre-ordering games.

What is it about DirectX that means Steam's option only works with Vulcan?
Yea, which is why it's imperative that those who understand what's happening speak up loudly.

Oh, and the English trailer released for Sackboy.. and it's already not looking good lol

0:22.. that hitching when that jester character's face is shown... :(



I'm so effing tired of this engine and every game releasing with the same damn predictable issue. *shakes head disappointingly*
 
Yeah, I wish more games did like Warframe. Basically, after any new major patch that alters shaders, implements new shaders, etc., the patcher will give the user an option to clear the previous cache and create a new shader cache prior to the game being run after that patch. If you choose not to do that then it'll compile the shaders as they are called while you are playing.

Doing it prior to game launch after a major patch that does that can take up to 5-20 minutes, but then there are zero stutters in game.
So funny how no-one could ever have predicted this. With all the increase in power and storage speeds, getting tripped up on shaders! And needing such a long time to recompile them too.

What's stopping a library of precompiled shaders on a server and downloading the right ones?
 
Yea, which is why it's imperative that those who understand what's happening speak up loudly.

Oh, and the English trailer released for Sackboy.. and it's already not looking good lol

0:22.. that hitching when that jester character's face is shown... :(



I'm so effing tired of this engine and every game releasing with the same damn predictable issue. *shakes head disappointingly*
It has to be something persistent and highly perceivable to the average player for it to be fixed. Most people dont even notice or care.
You dont see gamers complaining enough about it to the companies that use the engine. People still buy them and play them
 
It has to be something persistent and highly perceivable to the average player for it to be fixed. Most people dont even notice or care.
You dont see gamers complaining enough about it to the companies that use the engine. People still buy them and play them
It's always been persistent with UE... and it's obviously becoming more perceivable to the average player... because Epic is working on the issue for UE5.1.. lol

Now either people are complaining about stuttering in their games, and Epic is taking notice.... or developers have been complaining about how difficult it is to collect PSO data and pre-compile shaders, so Epic is taking notice.

One way or another.. they ARE taking notice.
 
It's always been persistent with UE... and it's obviously becoming more perceivable to the average player... because Epic is working on the issue for UE5.1.. lol

Now either people are complaining about stuttering in their games, and Epic is taking notice.... or developers have been complaining about how difficult it is to collect PSO data and pre-compile shaders, so Epic is taking notice.

One way or another.. they ARE taking notice.
Its great then.
It took too long. Wasnt it a problem since Unreal 3?
 
Another issue I noticed.. low res textures on the PC

PS5 - look at the hair on the sackboy.. nice and detailed immediately after camera cut
sackps5.png


PC version
sack.png


PC version a second later.. all loaded in
sackpcafter.png


*Sigh*

It appears the PS4 Pro version had that issue as well
sackps4procomp.png


And I'm sure this will happen regardless of how much VRAM you have or what type of GPU you have... much like Spider-man Remastered.

I'm so tired of this stuff... and meanwhile the trailer is talking about 4K 120hz and VRR... like give me a break. How about you fix the basic issues before boasting about anything else..
 
Another issue I noticed.. low res textures on the PC

PS5 - look at the hair on the sackboy.. nice and detailed immediately after camera cut
sackps5.png


PC version
sack.png


PC version a second later.. all loaded in
sackpcafter.png


*Sigh*

It appears the PS4 Pro version had that issue as well
sackps4procomp.png


And I'm sure this will happen regardless of how much VRAM you have or what type of GPU you have... much like Spider-man Remastered.

I'm so tired of this stuff... and meanwhile the trailer is talking about 4K 120hz and VRR... like give me a break. How about you fix the basic issues before boasting about anything else..

Good spot, hopefully a bug that can be ironed out before release but one to keep an eye on. No doubt we'll see a Youtuber or two putting it down to the PS5's superior IO capabilities if not.
 
Yea, which is why it's imperative that those who understand what's happening speak up loudly.

Oh, and the English trailer released for Sackboy.. and it's already not looking good lol

0:22.. that hitching when that jester character's face is shown... :(



I'm so effing tired of this engine and every game releasing with the same damn predictable issue. *shakes head disappointingly*

Damn, if they can't avoid stuttering in the promo material what hope do the rest of us have!
 
So funny how no-one could ever have predicted this. With all the increase in power and storage speeds, getting tripped up on shaders! And needing such a long time to recompile them too.

What's stopping a library of precompiled shaders on a server and downloading the right ones?

If I were to take a guess, it'd be the almost infinite combinations (probably not close to infinite but a prohibitive amount) of PC hardware and drivers. Especially drivers, as any driver change can alter how a shader needs to be compiled for a given graphics card. So, changes by NV or AMD to allow a game to run faster on X game can alter how a shader needs to be compiled for more than just X game.

With sometimes multiple versions of a driver each month depending on how many high profile games are launched combined with multiple years of driver combined with multiple generations of video cards with multiple cards in each generation, it can be quite a lot of effort to pre-generate all permutations of a shader. Some or all of which will then need to be generated again with either a new graphics driver release or new game patch.

I'm not entirely sure how much other parts of a PC's hardware and driver composition would impact shader generation either.

And then it also comes down to who holds the repository? Initially, you'd think Steam would be a logical point, but then not all gamers are on Steam. And even for games on Steam, most of the games that pre-compile shaders do so in their own launcher, so Steam may not even have direct access to them. Steam only has the legal right to redistribute the software package as provided to them by the developer.

Next applies to that last bit potentially.

Gamers en masse have no conviction. People don't even stop pre-ordering games.

What is it about DirectX that means Steam's option only works with Vulcan?

I suspect at least part of the reason why Valve is able to pre-compile and cache shaders for Vulcan and OGL is that due to running through Linux (for use on Steam Deck), those versions don't pre-compile their shaders in each developer/publishers own launcher.

Alternatively due to how games must be run on Steam Deck through SteamOS, there might be new licensing agreements that allow for interception, precompilation, caching and distribution of non-provided files such that those games can run on SteamOS through Linux. A side benefit of those licenses might be that Valve has more freedom WRT distribution if the game relies on Vulkan or OGL as their renderer even outside of Linux.

Or perhaps it's a licensing thing with DX or some other technical snafu that I'm unaware of since I'm not a graphics programmer. :p

Regards,
SB
 
Back
Top