It'd be write once to record the data for later multiple readings.
Sony PlayStation cross-platform game strategy
- Thread starter Shifty Geezer
- Start date
What could they be doing differently? Unless assets are shared across planets and you have, say, 20 GBs of content present shared across all planets, there's going to be a clean division of content over biomes to keep each one fresh, which is the whole point of different biomes.
I guess it depends on how much content you're generating, but yes, I'd love to see games go into that direction. Having game permanence is a game changer these drives can provide. I think only a few engines handle this, like Creation Engine sort of is a light version of this only really looking at decisions made. I don't know how large save games will be etc, but that would be amazing none the less.
AFIAK, encoding is extremely heavy on Kraken/Oodle compared to decompressing, you could spend minutes/hours encoding the textures in a game, but have them decoded so quickly. PS5 is only equipped with a decoding chip, so encoding would have to be done on the CPU side, and to speed it up, using AVX2. This would be a large challenge here to keep a game running smoothly while writing results back to the SSD. If not compressed I think should be okay, but then we'd have to look at write speeds. DF did this in one of their videos, and appears there is a heavy asymmetric performance differential as it's write speeds are significantly worse than it's read speeds.
But regardless of the deficiencies, I think we have to rule out any sort of real-time encoding while running the games, I'm pretty sure, and I'll confirm with my contact at RAD Tools, encoding is uber slow (especially if you're doing RDO encoding) compared to decoding. I don't think encoding and writing back to the drive will be an option, at least not with kraken - another encoding scheme might be possible however.
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
It's probably never been easier to have a wider, more pervasive, adaptable set of geometry with different textures and shaders and anything else. Being constrained by needing to have these assets in this level pak is in the past. I'm not saying this is what they're doing, but I'm keeping an open mind.
snc
Veteran
https://wccftech.com/ul-benchmarks-adds-ssd-benchmark-in-3dmark-suite-focused-at-gamers/
3dmark release ssd benchmark, rift apart pc will have in minimum spec 5k points at this benchmark ;d
3dmark release ssd benchmark, rift apart pc will have in minimum spec 5k points at this benchmark ;d
That's quite interesting, I'd be interested to see how it arrives at the overall score. e.g. is this pure uncompressed data or does decompression speed come into it as well? They seem to but a high emphasis on access latency which I'm not sure is all that relevant for games right now beyond SATA SDD levels.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Just that Sony's statement isn't contradictory to that statement that I made. IE - there's nothing to reconcile. It neither confirms my statement nor does it refute my statement.
Eh? Considering that a Samsung 980 Pro is quite a bit faster than what R&C: Rift Apart needs and only scores 2,858, how are you arriving at 5k points needed? If anything this could indicate that you only need a PCIE 3 based SSD in order to run a PC version of R&C: Rift Apart.
Of course part of this assumption is that the PC will be able to decompress R&C: Rift Apart data as quickly as a PS5.
Regards,
SB
snc
Veteran
it was of course joke
tough I hope this test take into account more than just raw ssd speed but generaly whole i/o systemSilent_Buddha
Legend
That should be apparent in game though. That is, if Insomniac are doing something different, we should be able to see that as same model, different texture, and vastly more variety per level than comparable games.
The HDD was often not the limiting factor in PS4 loading. I might be the only person I know that has a 5400 RPM HDD in their computer. I do run some games off it. The difference in loading speed compared to PS4 is pretty large.
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
Back up cowboy. You made your statement, I said I've not seen data to support and Sony's statement doesn't reconcile (they are worried about gamers going to PC, not another console), then you said "doesn't it?" and I said no. So no!
I'm not saying your wrong in that console owners are more likely to buy another console rather than a PC, what I'm saying is that I've not seen any data to support it. Sony's statement doesn't either. Is there data that supports your theory?
Given how tiny some of the assets are, would you really notice them being re-used if they are altered in some way? It's not like PS2 and PS3 generation where you'd keep seeing the same tree or rock over and over.
I don't know..
I don't know, I haven't played the game. But if they are tiny, they'd need to be very, very numerous to start hitting the IO heavily. And from a dev perspective, are you going to add all that detail if it's not even noticeable? As Insomniac's first game on the platform, far more likely they are doing something somewhat conventional with the IO instead of something completely different. AFAIK the visuals aren't anything new, just the transitions between them are faster. Without evidence they are doing something different...well, that's kinda your thing.
Without any evidence R&C is doing anything different, and no particular logic to think Insomniac are doing anything different, there's not much of a case to say R&C will struggle on PC given what we do know.ps5 hadware allowed them to do things better than last gen though, like using cutscene quality characters and lighting for gameplay that keeps the consistency, and that shows, no more "bad lit worse detailed gameplay characters" like in UC4 etc... for exemple.
they said though they only scratched the surface of what's possible with the PS5 in R&C.
they said though they only scratched the surface of what's possible with the PS5 in R&C.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Back up cowboy. You made your statement, I said I've not seen data to support and Sony's statement doesn't reconcile (they are worried about gamers going to PC, not another console), then you said "doesn't it?" and I said no. So no!
I'm not saying your wrong in that console owners are more likely to buy another console rather than a PC, what I'm saying is that I've not seen any data to support it. Sony's statement doesn't either. Is there data that supports your theory?
Nothing quantifiable due to the mecurial nature of data retention on Twitch unfortunately. That data being based on polls done with viewers as well as just reading viewers chatting while one personality or another is streaming. It's become even more ephemeral recently as the great music DRM purge has started and is still continuing leading to the loss of a great many saved VODs of past streams.
It basically comes down to cost and desire.
- Can you afford a console? Obviously yes or the data would be irrelevant to the discussion.
- Do you want to game on a console? Yes or No?
- Part of the consideration that goes into this is whether or not a person is interested in gaming predominantly with a controller.
- Do you want to game on a console? Yes or No?
- Can you afford a PC? Yes or No?
- Obviously if they can't afford a PC then there is nothing that will happen that will allow them to game on a PC.
- Do you want to game on a PC? Yes or No?
- Where the gaming occurs has a large impact on this. Gaming in the living room precludes most people even considering a PC even though SFF PCs do exist.
- If Yes, are you willing to deal with the potential headaches associated with owning and gaming on a gaming PC? Yes or No?
- Many former PC gamers that switched to console are never going back to PC just due to the headaches they experienced in the past with maintaining a PC or getting games to run.
So, while Twitch may not be entirely representative of the entire landscape of PC and console gamers, it's certainly far more representative than B3D (as much as I love this forum) or even a gaming news site as the viewership runs the gamut from Stay at home moms to non-technical professionals with little time to game to jobless people there to escape the tediums and depression of trying to find a job to software engineers to game developers to delivery drivers to cooks, etc.
I totally get people being skeptical as there is no published data or even graphics of the polls that I've seen. And that's fine.
I think there have been one or two papers (possibly more that I'm unaware of) released by the companies that do statistics involving world wide gaming trends that may have looked into this, but IIRC they were all locked behind a substantial pay wall.--- SB is now going off on a tangent time, please ignore if you don't like SB going on a tangent.
--Something that is noteworthy, however, is that this mostly applies to Western Countries. In Asian countries the dynamics are different as consoles aren't seen as necessarily attractive or viable gaming machines, for whatever reason. And this is going off on a tangent because my mind has now wandered
, but I just noticed an interesting phenomenon in Steam. There's been a growing explosion of Japanese indie developed games on PC including (the most surprising to me) some formerly Japanese Visual Novel developers now dipping their toes into making "real" games. What's interesting, at least to me, is that many of these games are ones that in prior console generations (especially PS1 and PS2) would have appeared on PlayStation consoles.Regards,
SB
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Deleted member 13524
Guest
If you're willing to venture into the depths of the Playstation Store, you'll find a sizeable number of english translated visual novels as well. I'd guess the Japanese PS Store has a lot more of those.
Though I had the idea that visual novels have always been centered on the PC.
The news here is those same developers starting to launch their translated games on Steam. If I had to guess, Steam demands that every game must be fully playable in english and the current A.I. translators work well enough to get publishing rights.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Nope, Steam doesn't require that as evidenced by how many Chinese made games have no English translations. There are also some Russian language games as well as a few Japanese and Korean language games that have no English translation on Steam. English is generally one of the first languages a developer will offer in a game just due to English being the single largest language block in the Western world. So if, for example, a French or German developer wanted to make the most money possible with their first translation to a foreign language, they'll generally choose to do the English translation first. That might give the impression that Steam requires an English translation when it doesn't.
The following doesn't really apply to consoles due to the relative lack of interest in console gaming compared to PC gaming in Russia and China and Southeast Asia.
This gets a little more nuanced when you get to the Asian and Southeast Asian countries, however where Chinese and Russian become viable first translation languages. So you see some South Korean and Japanese PC developers sometimes choosing to offer either Chinese or Russian translations before English translations.
One big example of this is the upcoming Lost Ark game (South Korean developers) which is finally getting an English translation 3 years after launch and which already has both Russian and Chinese language versions of the game. NOTE - this game only appeared on Steam after work started on an English version. Despite the late English release, it's hugely anticipated by both ARPG gamers as well as MMO gamers since it's basically a better Diablo that also happens to be an MMO. I've been really wanting this game ever since it was first revealed back in 2014.
Regards,
SB
You’re missing a segment that can upgrade their PC to outperform consoles at minimal outlay. If you consider a lot of people already have a PC and a GPU upgrade gives you a significant upgrade on the old console then that’s a better option than expanding into yet another ecosystemNothing quantifiable due to the mecurial nature of data retention on Twitch unfortunately. That data being based on polls done with viewers as well as just reading viewers chatting while one personality or another is streaming. It's become even more ephemeral recently as the great music DRM purge has started and is still continuing leading to the loss of a great many saved VODs of past streams.
It basically comes down to cost and desire.
So the barrier for a console gamer to switch to and/or own another console is much lower than it is for a console gamer to switch to and/or own a gaming PC. And while there are obviously exceptions as I noted (like you, for example), the vast majority tend not to mix console and PC and those that do tend to buy all or almost all of their 3rd party games on PC. When I say those that game on PC, I mean those that invest in a gaming PC versus casual PC gamers that say play mostly match 3 games.
- Can you afford a console? Obviously yes or the data would be irrelevant to the discussion.
- Do you want to game on a console? Yes or No?
- Part of the consideration that goes into this is whether or not a person is interested in gaming predominantly with a controller.
- Can you afford a PC? Yes or No?
- Obviously if they can't afford a PC then there is nothing that will happen that will allow them to game on a PC.
- Do you want to game on a PC? Yes or No?
- Where the gaming occurs has a large impact on this. Gaming in the living room precludes most people even considering a PC even though SFF PCs do exist.
- If Yes, are you willing to deal with the potential headaches associated with owning and gaming on a gaming PC? Yes or No?
- Many former PC gamers that switched to console are never going back to PC just due to the headaches they experienced in the past with maintaining a PC or getting games to run.
So, while Twitch may not be entirely representative of the entire landscape of PC and console gamers, it's certainly far more representative than B3D (as much as I love this forum) or even a gaming news site as the viewership runs the gamut from Stay at home moms to non-technical professionals with little time to game to jobless people there to escape the tediums and depression of trying to find a job to software engineers to game developers to delivery drivers to cooks, etc.
I totally get people being skeptical as there is no published data or even graphics of the polls that I've seen. And that's fine.
--- SB is now going off on a tangent time, please ignore if you don't like SB going on a tangent.
Something that is noteworthy, however, is that this mostly applies to Western Countries. In Asian countries the dynamics are different as consoles aren't seen as necessarily attractive or viable gaming machines, for whatever reason. And this is going off on a tangent because my mind has now wandered
Regards,
SB
The only reason to buy another console is if that offers significant gains surely? So PS360 gen I migrated back to PC (upgraded) to get a much better performance on cross platform games… didn’t sell my PS360 because exclusives and games I owned.
Last gen I upgraded to ProX and left my PC as is, I upgraded this gen because I had the funds and was offered a 3070 at cost, never spent more than £150 on upgrading before lol.
I realise that‘s anecdotal, but I can’t understand why a (example) Xbox gamer would switch to PlayStation mid gen.
Is that actually true in real terms, certainly in any sizeable numbers? Given availability of parts and need to upgrade whole motherboards to take new CPUs, etc. I'm not sure that the minimum cost to upgrade from the median average PC is going to be that low. Isn't the cost of the GPU alone the cost of the whole console these days?
