Sony PlayStation 5 Pro

[Flappy Pannus]

When you are watching on a 120 inch screen you will definitely see the mouse cursor not disappearing while in fullscreen video.

Are you actually arguing that the code which automatically hides the mouse cursor when playing a video in Windows - regardless of video player - does not, in fact, hide it - but just makes it really small and MS hoped people wouldn't notice -or rather that there's a fundamental incompatibility with TV's that 10 people own and Windows video players?

I can play a video with complete black background, watch the cursor disappear, be 10" from my 55" TV and not see it reappear unless I actually move it. Media Player. VLC. Film and Video. Youtube in Chrome/Firefox/Edge. Every video player I've ever used hides the cursor in fullscreen mode, as they have for decades. This is an incredibly bizarre tangent.

You are merely saying it does not bother you, sure, in which case I will say: nobody should be listening to your opinion regarding this

My man, you're failing at watching a video on Windows.

 

[XboxKING]

Are you actually arguing that the code which automatically hides the mouse cursor when playing a video in Windows - regardless of video player - does not, in fact, hide it - but just makes it really small and MS hoped people wouldn't notice -or rather that there's a fundamental incompatibility with TV's that 10 people own and Windows video players?

I can play a video with complete black background, watch the cursor disappear, be 10" from my 55" TV and not see it reappear unless I actually move it. Media Player. VLC. Film and Video. Youtube in Chrome/Firefox/Edge. Every video player I've ever used hides the cursor in fullscreen mode, as they have for decades. This is an incredibly bizarre tangent.



My man, you're failing at watching a video on Windows.

On such a small screen you probably wouldn’t notice. Also it doesn’t happen all the time which is exactly my frustration; you can never really rely on on it working or not working. Hundreds of these things combined are what irritates many users and when they want to relax and not have to deal with it, they’ll use dedicated devices better suited at the task. Be it productivity, media creation, gaming, browsing or social media consumption . Windows is never my platform of choice, for anything. Nearly every single task is inferior to the competition

Even for gaming windows often offers worse performance comported to proton and emulated code even

 

[arandomguy]

Even when you try to watch a movie through your pc and are sitting on the couch with the mouse, windows is going to say you need to change your windows password and you need to essentially have the keyboard next to you always in case you need to manage windows. Or it is going to say something about updating windows and you will need to wait with no way of knowing how long it is going to take.

Real PC gamers raw dog it without a password on an admin account with all updates and security settings disabled for that extra performance.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Honestly, the price is pretty crazy, but I think it'll sell out. My expectation is it won't set the world on fire, but it will sell out. It's just like expensive phones. I don't understand why people buy them, but they do. There is a premium market for everything.

My main question is whether this complicates things for next gen. People will expect PS6 to be a significant jump over PS5 and PS5 Pro, but what kind of pricing territory will that land it in. Right now, you still have PS5 at a good price that people are willing to pay. What specs will PS6 now need to surpass PS5 Pro, and what price can that be delivered at? Would have been easier headroom if they just had to show advancement over base PS5. Maybe this gen is going to last longer than usual.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

On such a small screen you probably wouldn’t notice.

You can see mouse cursors on screens smaller than 120", thankfully. People do it everyday!

(And yes, I did catch that transparent humblebrag attempt by calling a 55" screen "small". Your screen is very large, "XboxKing", rest assured. No reason for insecurity.)

Also it doesn’t happen all the time which is exactly my frustration; you can never really rely on on it working or not working.

Yes you can. The mouse cursor does not randomly appear without input when watching videos on Windows. This is simply not a thing that happens unless there is something wrong with your system.

Even for gaming windows often offers worse performance comported to proton and emulated code even

Well aware of Proton, I dual boot with Linux and have used DXVK/VKD3D on Windows as well for several titles. Completely irrelevant to the issue we're discussing that is Windows and phantom mouse cursors on videos though.

(Regardless, Linux on a PC hooked up to a TV is worse from a ease-of-use standpoint currently - but we'll see once Valve starts making Steam OS generally available as distribs. There will always be some fundamental difficulty barriers even fi the OS is the same vs. a fixed hardware platform like the SteamDeck though).

Real PC gamers raw dog it without a password on an admin account with all updates and security settings disabled for that extra performance.

Oh, speaking of passwords as well: Why the heck would a home user be prompted to change their "Windows" (online? local?) account not only when playing a video, but well...ever?

Like if it's a local password, you control the password policy, so maybe don't set it to expire every 30 days? For my Microsoft Account, I've never been prompted to change my password once over the years.

Again, a thing that just does not happen.

Plenty of annoyances and quirks you get with a PC on a TV compared to a console, no doubt. So no reason just to make up nonsense.

 

[arandomguy]

Honestly, the price is pretty crazy, but I think it'll sell out. My expectation is it won't set the world on fire, but it will sell out. It's just like expensive phones. I don't understand why people buy them, but they do. There is a premium market for everything.

My main question is whether this complicates things for next gen. People will expect PS6 to be a significant jump over PS5 and PS5 Pro, but what kind of pricing territory will that land it in. Right now, you still have PS5 at a good price that people are willing to pay. What specs will PS6 now need to surpass PS5 Pro, and what price can that be delivered at? Would have been easier headroom if they just had to show advancement over base PS5. Maybe this gen is going to last longer than usual.

I feel something that came to light during the pandemic was the issue of pricing items too low at launch and leaving money on the tablet (much of which is taken by scalpers). The idea of pricing something so low relative to demand (what the public is willing to pay, not neccesarily what they want to pay) right on the onset and having prolonged shortages really is becoming more questionable from a business stand point.

As for the PS6 (or next gen in general) I do feel there are some factors that work in their favor. They can fully lean into VRR I feel (due to more proliferation of TVs and displays). They won't need to accomodate the 30 -> 60 fps issue if we basically spent this gen normalizing 60 fps. They can go more in with "alternative" rendering technology that likely has more growth growth potential both on the hardware and software scaling side. Price optics will also likely have shifted, remember the base PS5 didn't really have a perceived pricing issue at $500, as such I'm guessing the PS6 has $600 at least to work with.

 

[arandomguy]

Oh, speaking of passwords as well: Why the heck would a home user be prompted to change their "Windows" (online? local?) account not only when playing a video, but well...ever?

Like if it's a local password, you control the password policy, so maybe don't set it to expire every 30 days? For my Microsoft Account, I've never been prompted to change my password once over the years.

Again, a thing that just does not happen.

Plenty of annoyances and quirks you get with a PC on a TV compared to a console, no doubt. So no reason just to make up nonsense.

At least personally on Win 10 on a local admin account (yes I might be a raging hypocrit here in terms of best practices, but I don't disable updates/mitigation/security) I only ever enter and get promoted for the password on logon.

In all seriousness to this question I actually setup a laptop connected to a display (not an actual TV, just a larger monitor) for a family member and they operate it with a wireless mouse only (no keyboard, the laptop keyboard actually doesn't function anymore) just for youtube (via chrome) on a non-admin account but with no password setup. They use it fine like that, well other than Windows updates confusing them.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I feel something that came to light during the pandemic was the issue of pricing items too low at launch and leaving money on the tablet (much of which is taken by scalpers). The idea of pricing something so low relative to demand (what the public is willing to pay, not neccesarily what they want to pay) right on the onset and having prolonged shortages really is becoming more questionable from a business stand point.

As for the PS6 (or next gen in general) I do feel there are some factors that work in their favor. They can fully lean into VRR I feel (due to more proliferation of TVs and displays). They won't need to accomodate the 30 -> 60 fps issue if we basically spent this gen normalizing 60 fps. They can go more in with "alternative" rendering technology that likely has more growth growth potential both on the hardware and software scaling side. Price optics will also likely have shifted, remember the base PS5 didn't really have a perceived pricing issue at $500, as such I'm guessing the PS6 has $600 at least to work with.

Yah, I can see that. Launch with the price a little higher with room to cut each time demand drops.

 

[Erinyes]

The price is really a bit too high and Sony is being a bit greedy here. The PS5 digital edition is $449, and this basically adds 1 TB of NAND and a more expensive SoC. Cost of 1TB NAND is like ~$50 at most and the SoC likely on 4nm from the earlier 6nm. Rough math, 260mm2 on 6nm would give ~180 good dies, at 10K a wafer is ~$55 for the silicon. The new SoC on 4nm is likely to be a bit smaller but even if we take the same size and 17K for a wafer it's ~$95. So ballpark ~$100 more expensive before you add other costs and margins. Sony could've priced it at par with the XSX 2TB if they really wanted to be aggressive, or $649 at most. I feel like we'll see price cuts immediately after the holiday season.

Future consoles are likely to go up in price as well. Storage and RAM requirements are going to go up and cost scaling seems to have stagnated. Cost of silicon is also going up, and the next gen is likely to be on some variant of 3nm (N3S perhaps). Base variants of next gen consoles are likely to be at least $599 I think.

 

[XboxKING]

You can see mouse cursors on screens smaller than 120", thankfully. People do it everyday!

(And yes, I did catch that transparent humblebrag attempt by calling a 55" screen "small". Your screen is very large, "XboxKing", rest assured. No reason for insecurity.)



Yes you can. The mouse cursor does not randomly appear without input when watching videos on Windows. This is simply not a thing that happens unless there is something wrong with your system.



Well aware of Proton, I dual boot with Linux and have used DXVK/VKD3D on Windows as well for several titles. Completely irrelevant to the issue we're discussing that is Windows and phantom mouse cursors on videos though.

(Regardless, Linux on a PC hooked up to a TV is worse from a ease-of-use standpoint currently - but we'll see once Valve starts making Steam OS generally available as distribs. There will always be some fundamental difficulty barriers even fi the OS is the same vs. a fixed hardware platform like the SteamDeck though).



Oh, speaking of passwords as well: Why the heck would a home user be prompted to change their "Windows" (online? local?) account not only when playing a video, but well...ever?

Like if it's a local password, you control the password policy, so maybe don't set it to expire every 30 days? For my Microsoft Account, I've never been prompted to change my password once over the years.

Again, a thing that just does not happen.

Plenty of annoyances and quirks you get with a PC on a TV compared to a console, no doubt. So no reason just to make up nonsense.

You still don’t understand, even if you move the mouse to the right edge of the screen you will still have a small column of visible pixels, which you probably cannot see on a 55 inch screen as most oled owners (also on this board) cannot even see hundreds of dead pixels near the borders after 2 years of use

If you cannot demand your devices function perfectly then what is the use of arguing for anything

 

[orangpelupa]

this thread has turned into about windows bug where sometimes it fails to hide the mouse cursor, and how LG OLED screens dies from its outer edges?

 

[davis.anthony]

I wonder what the agreement is between Sony and AMD for PSSR.

AMD make the hardware block, and Sony supply the base software to AMD for them to role out FSR4 with ML along side RDMA4?

 

[RobertR1]

this thread has turned into about windows bug where sometimes it fails to hide the mouse cursor, and how LG OLED screens dies from its outer edges?

Whatever make believe is needed to justify a false position, yes.

 

[Charlietus]

Even if I don't believe that it will happen, and I believe there will be lower cost options, let's imagine that PS6 follows the PS5 PRO model and it launches at 699$/799€ as the only model.

That's death of the consoles speedrun any%. And that's now a little possibility for the future.

 

[Charlietus]

The price is really a bit too high and Sony is being a bit greedy here. The PS5 digital edition is $449, and this basically adds 1 TB of NAND and a more expensive SoC. Cost of 1TB NAND is like ~$50 at most and the SoC likely on 4nm from the earlier 6nm. Rough math, 260mm2 on 6nm would give ~180 good dies, at 10K a wafer is ~$55 for the silicon. The new SoC on 4nm is likely to be a bit smaller but even if we take the same size and 17K for a wafer it's ~$95. So ballpark ~$100 more expensive before you add other costs and margins. Sony could've priced it at par with the XSX 2TB if they really wanted to be aggressive, or $649 at most. I feel like we'll see price cuts immediately after the holiday season.

Future consoles are likely to go up in price as well. Storage and RAM requirements are going to go up and cost scaling seems to have stagnated. Cost of silicon is also going up, and the next gen is likely to be on some variant of 3nm (N3S perhaps). Base variants of next gen consoles are likely to be at least $599 I think.

The competitive price was 700€/600$ with a disc drive and 50€/$ less without it, probably selling it a near cost. They are getting at least 100€ in profit from this, which is probably unprecedented on the console space.

What this could paint is a near future where we have a base console that is sold at production costs, while the pro model is sold at a profit.

 

[GhostofWar]

What are the chances AMD are sick of being ridden hard and put away wet in regards to the margin on their console socs and this is where some of the increased cost has come from?

 

[orangpelupa]

I wonder why still no LFC even on ps5 pro. Or the games will never ever goes under 40fps?

 

[Nesh]

I feel something that came to light during the pandemic was the issue of pricing items too low at launch and leaving money on the tablet (much of which is taken by scalpers). The idea of pricing something so low relative to demand (what the public is willing to pay, not neccesarily what they want to pay) right on the onset and having prolonged shortages really is becoming more questionable from a business stand point.

As for the PS6 (or next gen in general) I do feel there are some factors that work in their favor. They can fully lean into VRR I feel (due to more proliferation of TVs and displays). They won't need to accomodate the 30 -> 60 fps issue if we basically spent this gen normalizing 60 fps. They can go more in with "alternative" rendering technology that likely has more growth growth potential both on the hardware and software scaling side. Price optics will also likely have shifted, remember the base PS5 didn't really have a perceived pricing issue at $500, as such I'm guessing the PS6 has $600 at least to work with.

But the thing is, when PS5 has been stable or even going more expensive in pricing, with Pro being so expensive and even more expensive in EU, what price reductions can we expect until let's say 2027 that will allow the PS6 to be priced at $600?
In 4 years we got a mid gen upgrade priced at 700-800+ without a disc drive.

Surely they will rely on image and framerate reconstruction to save silicon.

But still, it's going to be more powerful than a PS5 Pro for sure. I don't see the PS5 dropping at $400 and the PS5 pro at $500 anytime soon and expect at least double the performance on PS6 charging only $100 more.

The pricing/cost stability (or even increase) of this console gen is unprecedented

 

[davis.anthony]

We've not talked power consumption yet, a 7800XT pulls 250-275watts by itself according to Guru3D

Could we be looking at 300-350w for a console?

 

[LordEC911]

We've not talked power consumption yet, a 7800XT pulls 250-275watts by itself according to Guru3D

Could we be looking at 300-350w for a console?

Unlikely, RX 7900M with a cutdown N31 has a 180w TDP.
I would assume they would keep it about the same ~200-225w, with maybe a small bump for more consistent clocks.
Sony definitely will want to re-use their 350w PSU.