Sony, No 2019 E3 Showing

Well if the returns are going to be completely negative and fan feedback negative, then yea it's not worth it. Which is what was largely predicted.
MS has its own goals. The discounting of their presentation is seems to focus squarely around their hardware announcement.

E3 is not yet over and they continue to release more news.
But major platform announcements to the big stage are
  • Game pass ultimate
  • Game pass PC
  • Xcloud streaming is free if you own the console hardware
  • Xcloud hands on (and the reviews appear to be very good, and we see it running on a variety of mobile devices)
  • They announced that all Xbox accessories are moving forward to next gen
  • Full BC for 4 generations worth of games
  • They announced their 2nd generation of Elite controllers which the first generation has had massive praise for
  • Nearly all the titles they showcased on their stage will... come to and launch on game pass.
  • They had diversity in their JPN lineup, some people seem to be going crazy about PSO 2, which I don't understand, but clearly I'm not the audience for this.
  • There were definitely some titles that failed to live up to the hype, the Gears 5 trailer and Halo were too bare to have an effect. Battletoads was not there as well. Missing of fable etc. New IPs were leaked ahead of time.

But to call their presentation complete garbage as in this will have no effect for MS is false (which I guess is thread is about; whether E3 is needed). Whether MS had an affect on Sony consumers is still to be seen, but they did sufficient in speaking to their audiences of the future of the xbox platform, they just put a big line in the sand of where their platform is headed (clearly game pass and streaming and playing your games on any device you wish to)

There is a lot of focus on what traditional console market is. But where MS is headed is not it
 
Why was E3 needed for MS's message? Would they be disadvantaged if they'd announced all that info in other ways? Either their own presentation, or a bunch of exclusive showcases?

In fact, I think the best move a company could make is there own 'Nintendo Direct' concept, but to really put on good shows that are entertaining so people choose to watch them for entertainment, not for news. Rack up those YT subscriptions and control the timing of all your messages perfectly. Looking at how Kevin Butler made PS3 adverts cool and entertaining and worth watching in their own right, and how Nintendo has managed to be entertaining in their own style, it's definitely doable. If I were in charge, I'd focus everything there, in coming up with a 'studio' that can create killer content and dress the message up in a hugely palatable, mass-consumed format.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
Why was E3 needed for MS's message? Would they be disadvantaged if they'd announced all that info in other ways? Either their own presentation, or a bunch of exclusive showcases?

In fact, I think the best move a company could make is there own 'Nintendo Direct' concept, but to really put on good shows that are entertaining so people choose to watch them for entertainment, not for news. Rack up those YT subscriptions and control the timing of all your messages perfectly. Looking at how Kevin Butler made PS3 adverts cool and entertaining and worth watching in their own right, and how Nintendo has managed to be entertaining in their own style, it's definitely doable. If I were in charge, I'd focus everything there, in coming up with a 'studio' that can create killer content and dress the message up in a hugely palatable, mass-consumed format.
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Because it's a place where they can get everyone together in the same space to try/play/demo and announce things. Youtube streaming can only be for announcements. People are playing things at E3. Trying things. Talking with other people who share their hobby of games, developers are there to talk to. There is hardware to hold and try.
Youtube didn't do squat for Xcloud, people hand waved it as garbage, people (here) are still hand waving it as garbage even after reading user reviews - citing things such as latency as being 'impossible'. Well if you were there in person trying it, you'd know for yourself. Hands-on demos are something else, people get to try games, get to try xcloud. The press is brief more thoroughly on things there, more people get access to interview etc.

There's a lot that happens at E3 outside of the keynote. People watch WWDC and Build keynotes, but it's like $1500 per person to attend. Those events span several days to meet with other developers, workshops etc.

Just take that concept and switch it to playing games. People are bouncing around from booth to booth talking with developers of their games, *i have a lot of Cuphead swag from when I met the developers in person for X017*. Also got to play a lot of different games at those events before they're released to playing for the public. You just lineup and talk to the developers meet other people while waiting to play their game.

tldr; MS doesn't have the clout that Sony or Nintendo do. They're coming from behind, and if they are only going to do the bare minimum to convince people to play on their platform, then they may as well stop trying.
 
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TBH I think it's potentially a mixture of a lot of 'little' things adding up to one big decision.

Even though Sony were not there;
  • they got new games revealed
  • everyone knows Scarlet will not be packing tech PS5 doesn't have
  • people are still talking about PS5/Sony
All this without spending a penny or (more importantly) hours and hours of prep (etc) and working to other peoples schedules.

Even though MS went to E3;
  • a load of their stuff got leaked
  • the Scarlet reveal was underwhelming
  • people are still talking about PS5/Sony
@iroboto - how does xcloud differ from the PS streaming solution (I'm not sure what it's called)? Also, don't get too excited about controlled demos like that - it's out in the wild where it really counts.
 
goonergaz said:
@iroboto - how does xcloud differ from the PS streaming solution (I'm not sure what it's called)? Also, don't get too excited about controlled demos like that - it's out in the wild where it really counts.
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As of right now?
I guess it comes down to
1.0 library --> anything you own on your library can be streamed to your mobile devices anywhere.
1.1 If you own your console you can stream your library anywhere for free, no fees
2.0 if you don't own the console whatever library you own or /gamepass/ can be streamed to any mobile device.

Those items + _any device_ is probably the known differentiators for now. I do not believe that Sony can stream their whole catalog of titles on PSNow to any device of their choosing.

I've developed games and published one and I work in telco for a big part of my career. I'm well aware of the limitations of networking technologies. I know how ideal scenarios are made. I also know that reality will differ from our controlled environments.

This is the case with a lot of things. The full beta will release later this year; so it will undergo its trials. But I don't think MS will release a product that doesn't work for a majority of their base. So as much as I know people want to see MS fail, MS did not spring back to the largest market cap in the world by outright lying to customers.

RE:
Even though MS went to E3;
  • a load of their stuff got leaked
  • the Scarlet reveal was underwhelming
  • people are still talking about PS5/Sony
It's unfortunate those issues came up. But in what reality would an E3 conference from MS ever stop people talking about PS5 or Sony? Even if they had the best conference in the world ever made, people would just sit back and say wait till you see what Sony has coming.
 
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iroboto said:
Well if the returns are going to be completely negative and fan feedback negative, then yea it's not worth it. Which is what was largely predicted.
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I'm not quite sure I follow this, are you suggesting Sony cancelled their 2019 E3 showing because folks were predicting fan feedback on their E3 2019 show would be negative?
 
DSoup said:
I'm not quite sure I follow this, are you suggesting Sony cancelled their 2019 E3 showing because folks were predicting fan feedback on their E3 2019 show would be negative?
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I guess the theory is that they would be showing the same games again for the 3rd time in a row and get blasted for it. Since they got blasted for doing that last e3.
 
Reality check.

Sony didn’t go to E3 for two main reasons.

1. They want their own show.
2. They can get the same coverage by not having to spend loads of cash on an event where all they’re showing is the same trailers they can put on YouTube (and get millions of views), while sharing the same information by giving interviews which also get millions of views.

It’s 2019 people, the age of mobility, the age of quickly accessible information. There is literally no ‘need’ for any of these shows, technically speaking. It’s good for the industry, and it supports jobs, but the signals have been there for a while now that e3 is not ‘needed’.

Going back to point 1. They want their own show, on their own accord. Which also isn’t exactly ‘needed’ - since they will get the same coverage as explained above - but at least it’s in their own time, with their own self contained press access etc.

Is it ‘nice’ that they still do these shows? Of course! We love watching these big conferences with big reveals but I really believe that the need for them is diminishing every year, as our habits and methods of obtaining information evolve.
 
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London-boy said:
Reality check.

Sony didn’t go to E3 for two main reasons.

1. They want their own show.
2. They can get the same coverage by not having to spend loads of cash on an event where all they’re showing is the same trailers they can put on YouTube (and get millions of views) while giving interviews which also get millions of views.

It’s 2019 people, the age of mobility, the age of quickly accessible information. There is literally no ‘need’ for any of these shows, technically speaking. It’s good for the industry, and it supports jobs, but the signals have been there for a while now that e3 is not ‘needed’.

Going back to point 1. They want their own show, on their own accord. Which also isn’t exactly ‘needed’ - since they will get the same coverage as explained above - but at least it in their own time, with their own self contained press access etc.

Is it ‘nice’ that they still do these shows? Of course! We love watching these big conferences with big reveals but I really believe that the need for them is diminishing every year, as our habits and methods of obtaining information evolve.
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This year's E3 is down right shit. But technically..MS is sort of having its own show there given that their conference, their booths (well everything MS) isn't located at E3 in the convention center but in their own place.. I frankly believe that if MS didn't have the Microsoft Theater just across the street they wouldn't' be there either just like Sony.
 
London-boy said:
Reality check.

Sony didn’t go to E3 for two main reasons.

1. They want their own show.
2. They can get the same coverage by not having to spend loads of cash on an event where all they’re showing is the same trailers they can put on YouTube (and get millions of views), while sharing the same information by giving interviews which also get millions of views..
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So I may not follow Sony as much as MS, but IIRC Sony has never provided a reason for not showing up at E3 2019. They just said they’re not going. Shawn Layden when pressed IIRC said that he wants E3 to be a celebration of games event where the fans and the developers get together and stuff and he doesn’t want it to have to be about dropping bombs.

Well: that’s exactly what E3 has become. Celebration event and if you can muster it; some bombs.

My position is just the opposite side of the spectrum as yours. I think they will return next year because PS5 and loads of new games to showcase. I think this was an off year for them.

But if we go by your theory they won’t be at E3 next year promoting PS5.

I’ve not yet read an official anything from
Sony saying they think E3 is pointless. Even Nintendo who started the directs actually have a day during E3 to put in their direct. Which is today actually and soon.
 
iroboto said:
I guess the theory is that they would be showing the same games again for the 3rd time in a row and get blasted for it. Since they got blasted for doing that last e3.
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Some games folks do want to see more of, like The Last of Us 2 and Ghost of Tsushima. These are games where there has been little shown. The same was true at last year's events where people wanted to see more and more of God of War and Spider-Man before they launched.

But you can't please all of the people all of the time. Indeed, in these dark, cynical internet days, it's almost impossible to please a quarter of the people some of the time. It just seems better all round to release news when you are ready in a form you like when you feel it will be most beneficial, rather than fight for media attentional scraps at something like E3.
 
iroboto said:
So I may not follow Sony as much as MS, but IIRC Sony has never provided a reason for not showing up at E3 2019. They just said they’re not going.
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http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2019/02/shawn_layden_explains_sonys_decision_to_pull_out_of_e3_2019

In quite a lengthy answer to the publication's question regarding E3, Layden explains the trade show used to be for trade; retailers and journalists would flock to Los Angeles to learn about new games on the horizon for their respective fields. Nowadays, Sony has its own February trade show called Destination PlayStation, informing retailers of the platform holder's plans for the year. As for games media, the internet has lessened the impact of reporting from E3. In other words: "the trade show became a trade show without a lot of trade activity. The world has changed, but E3 hasn't necessarily changed with it."

Another point Layden makes is that Sony simply doesn't want to falsely build expectations when it's focusing more and more on fewer, higher quality games. "And with our decision to do fewer games -- bigger games -- over longer periods of time, we got to a point where June of 2019 was not a time for us to have a new thing to say. And we feel like if we ring the bell and people show up here in force, people have expectation 'Oh, they're going to tell us something.'"​
 
Xbat said:
Yes they saved money but I don't think it was the driving factor of there decision.
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IIRC, some of these events (especially Sony's 2018 E3) can easily eclipse twenty million dollars. Sure it's a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of money Sony (Microsoft and Nintendo as well) spends on advertising, but still, saving $20M for other more personalized events probably outweighed their need on being at E3.

As for Microsoft, I found this E3 from them to be the most enjoyable of all their prior ones. Great pacing for sure. Hopefully, Sony can learn from Microsoft that no-one (well me at least) wants all the theatrics and sideshow circus filler, just get to the announcements and gaming reveals.
 
LOL. Publicity float all boats. Both negative and positive noise increases during events like these. MS could of launched the next Xbox at this e3 and it would have generated more negative noise than MS not showing up at all.

The Xbox is driving the conversation right now both good and bad. Look we are in a Sony thread mostly talking about the xbox. Most of the b3d console games forum’s top threads since Sunday are either Xbox titles or were shown at its conference.

No Sony isn’t generating any negative noise right now it’s also not generating much enthusiasm either.

If E3 is so irrelevant, let’s see if Sony skips it next year when the PS5 is closer to launch. Why does e3 still generate so many threads here and at sites like resetera?

It’s cheaper and easier to hold your own event. Doesn’t mean you going to capture the level of attention that e3 generates. Sony could of streamed live from one its own auditorium in its headquarters right before or during e3 and create additional enthusiasm for its titles that’s close to release.
 
Xbat said:
Wait just a minute;) the God of War reveal with orchestra was fantastic.



One of my greatest nerdgasms ever:yes:

In fact I'm disappointed when there isn't an orchestra.
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Extravagant. Which reinforces my point.

Maybe I’m just biased because all these shows and big conferences are always on LA time and watching them live would mean staying up until 2am here. Which is super annoying.

But I’m pretty sure I’m kinda right :)
 
DSoup said:
Some games folks do want to see more of, like The Last of Us 2 and Ghost of Tsushima. These are games where there has been little shown. The same was true at last year's events where people wanted to see more and more of God of War and Spider-Man before they launched.

But you can't please all of the people all of the time. Indeed, in these dark, cynical internet days, it's almost impossible to please a quarter of the people some of the time. It just seems better all round to release news when you are ready in a form you like when you feel it will be most beneficial, rather than fight for media attentional scraps at something like E3.
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Absolutely. And I don't mind it being at E3 or how they are doing it right now, within state of play or other non E3 events. Some people expect megatons from E3 and I think Shawn Layden addressed that. Which you quoted below;

DSoup said:
Another point Layden makes is that Sony simply doesn't want to falsely build expectations when it's focusing more and more on fewer, higher quality games. "And with our decision to do fewer games -- bigger games -- over longer periods of time, we got to a point where June of 2019 was not a time for us to have a new thing to say. And we feel like if we ring the bell and people show up here in force, people have expectation 'Oh, they're going to tell us something.'"
Click to expand...

And I think that's sort of what makes me think that when do have new things to say, they are going to ring the bell. And thus attend E3.
It's really an anomaly, they've consistently gone 25 years straight or something, and this skipped 2019, but didn't say they were pulling out for good and using their own state of play and PSX as their only avenues. So the expectation is that they should return. I mean, I don't think I'm crazy in taking that position.
 
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