Sony is bleeding money - business strategy discussion

[deathindustrial]

It's more a problem of Sony unable to communicate and demonstrate the value of mini-disc vs digital download music.

I thought the problem with mini-disc was that Sony arbitrarily killed its use as a general purpose data medium by creating the artificial distinction between audio only minidiscs (cheap, plentiful) and data minidiscs (rare, expensive).

http://www.minidisc.org/very_faq.html

Unfortunately Minidisc was designed with a so-called "audio/data firewall" that prevents the ATRAC audio data on MDs from being accessed directly by computer. This was done to comply with Recording Industry concerns over music piracy.

If they had not gone that route, they almost for sure would have replaced the floppy with a cheap, resilient and portable 100MB disc sometime around 1992. The entire digital music landscape would likely have been very different if that was the case.

Cheers

 

[patsu]

I only use MiniDisc very briefly for listening to music. ^_^
The site you linked to has a detailed analysis of MD's marketing successes and failures:
http://www.minidisc.org/keep/Ratazzi_Minidisc_Innovation.pdf

 

[-tkf-]

All the while they had been selling cassettes and cd-r's for eons. IT MAKES NO SENSE. The piracy angle doesn't play.

So cassettes and CDR´s are in the same league as MP3 files? You must be joking (i wish), the piracy angle plays, and i even provided you with a link where a Sony guy stated the exact same thing.

Sony chose not to produce MP3 players because they thought it was a format used for piracy, and at that time it pretty much was the main usage.

How old are you? when did you get access to the net for the first time? there was plenty of discussion on the net about this, and how Sony was pissing their own pants with their strategy. You really must have missed the bus on that one.

 

[-tkf-]

What do you mean with "good quality"?
I was kind of an early adopter and bought one around 2000 (rio 800?) and i had no problem with it, aside from the tiny 32 MB storage .

Imagine a portable MP3 player with 128MB discs that plays MP3 files in 1995, that could have been a Minidisc MP3 Player

 

[AmFreak]

Imagine a portable MP3 player with 128MB discs that plays MP3 files in 1995, that could have been a Minidisc MP3 Player

Ya, but the point was that there weren't any good mp3 players before ipod. And that is just not true

 

[-tkf-]

Ya, but the point was that there weren't any good mp3 players before ipod. And that is just not true

The RIO from the well known company "Diamond" certainly didn´t take the world by storm with and i don´t recall any quality players from that time. My own MPMAN was a plastic disaster.

A world wide marketed MP3 player from the then undisputed portable champion would have made it´s mark.

 

[AmFreak]

The RIO from the well known company "Diamond" certainly didn´t take the world by storm with and i don´t recall any quality players from that time. My own MPMAN was a plastic disaster.

"Didn't take the world by storm" doesn't mean the products were bad. As i said i had no problems when i bought mine (the batterie compartment broke 6 years later or so). I also remember Creative to be regarded as a good alternative to an ipod.

 

[tuna]

It reminds of of Sega during the 32 bit era. Sega of Japan was reluctant to promote the Saturn as a home system that would serve as a substitute to the arcade machines because they wanted to avoid cannibalizing from their arcade business. But they ignored that competition was trying to market their product as such and bring the arcade quality experience to households. They didnt see that this is what people wanted and competition would give it to them

The biggest selling game on the Saturn was VF2. Sega made shitloads of arcade ports and many ST-V/Saturn joint developments like Decathlete and Die Hard Arcade. Sega made shitloads of errors during the Saturn era, but what you are claiming is not anywhere related to the truth.

 

[function]

Actually he's right. Originally Sega of Japan planned to follow up the Megadrive with a 2D focused console, part of the reason being that they could protect their highly profitable 3D arcade games. The "Gigadrive" (as it was referred to in 1993-ish rumours) was to have something like a 16mHz CPU (by NEC iirc) and would have been unable to handle Model 1 or Model 2 ports in any meaningful way.

When Sega found out what the Playstation could do they panicked and hurriedly redesigned the machine into the Saturn that got released. Haste and business loyalties forced them to make many sub-optimal choices with the machine, which drove up cost and made the machine increasingly uneconomical as the PS1 became cheaper to make and dropped in price.

Sega (at least the Japanese part which was in-charge) thought the market wouldn't move without them, but thanks to Sony it did and left them behind.

 

[-tkf-]

"Didn't take the world by storm" doesn't mean the products were bad. As i said i had no problems when i bought mine (the batterie compartment broke 6 years later or so). I also remember Creative to be regarded as a good alternative to an ipod.

I should have used another word than Quality, though it really is the last thing that comes to mind about the first MP3 players But i am gonna stick with it, when i got my first iPOD it was pure sex compared to other MP3 players, it was imho the first classy and high quality MP3 player. My extended collection of highend Sony walkmen and minidiscs felt like quality as well.

Getting OT i think

 

[patsu]

Getting OT i think

You bet ! ^_^

The original iPod didn't really take the world by storm immediately. It was white and minimalist, appeals to Apple fans who rip their music from CDs. A year later (?), Apple followed up with iTunes ecosystem + "softer" DRM. That did the trick. Then, they "hesitated" but eventually brought the ecosystem to Windows, and introduced cheaper iPods.

 

[tuna]

You bet ! ^_^

The original iPod didn't really take the world by storm immediately. It was white and minimalist, appeals to Apple fans who rip their music from CDs. A year later (?), Apple followed up with iTunes ecosystem + "softer" DRM. That did the trick. Then, they "hesitated" but eventually brought the ecosystem to Windows, and introduced cheaper iPods.

Itunes was released before the iPod. The store came later.

 

[tuna]

Actually he's right. Originally Sega of Japan planned to follow up the Megadrive with a 2D focused console, part of the reason being that they could protect their highly profitable 3D arcade games. The "Gigadrive" (as it was referred to in 1993-ish rumours) was to have something like a 16mHz CPU (by NEC iirc) and would have been unable to handle Model 1 or Model 2 ports in any meaningful way.

I would like to add "qutoation needed" here. I think cost was a bigger issue than any market protection. Also, Model 1 used a 16 mhz Nec CPU.

 

[patsu]

Itunes was released before the iPod. The store came later.

Ah, I stand corrected. The original iTunes software was for ripping music from CD right ? It's the iTunes store and FairPlay DRM that popularized iPod later on.

 

[specwarGP2]

IMO Sony have lost a lot of the "cool factor" in many of their products. Many of them just don't stand out from the crowd. I think a lof of it has to do with the competitiion catching up and some even surpassing them.

I've disagreed with you in the past but you're spot on with your comment. Apple is the company with the "cool factor" now.

 

[rekator]

Ah, I stand corrected. The original iTunes software was for ripping music from CD right ? It's the iTunes store and FairPlay DRM that popularized iPod later on.

If I'm remember well you can add to the itunes library songs already encoded in the first iTunes… And first iTunes authorized to burn CDs… But it was on Mac OS 9, so long time ago… and my memory can be mistakes.

 

[-tkf-]

The Cool discussion got me searching how the rest of the world sees Sony, sometimes it´s funny to look back and see how the world looked just a few years ago:

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/04/28/sony-is-the-most-powerful-brand-says-study/

I like the "Sony has been having some rough days" line, it seems it didn´t really stop being rough.

But my favorite is the second comment:

The main reason I'm not buying a PS3 is because the Blu-ray that makes it so damn expensive will be a dead format in a few years. Wal-Mart will soon be backing HD-DVD exclusively
Sucks to be the person who already bought a dozen BD movies!

How things change and a good reminder about stating "facts" in comments

 

[orangpelupa]

long time ago (before ipod era) i think i happily play ogg music and video on cheap second-hand Windows Mobile PDA (play with TCPMP) using headphone.... (only need to bring dumb phone and pda)
and now i play music and video on cellphone (only need to bring a cellphone and can do anything).
both device also have good sound quality (better than my PC by that time)

so before ipod era, there already good portable (not dedicated) music player.

 

[RudeCurve]

It's important to note that brand power is not the same as cool factor.

Anyway for anyone who's interested in the top 100 most powerful brands here's the 2010 list.

http://popsop.com/wp-content/uploads/Brand_Power_-Ranking_2010.pdf

Notice...

BMW
Honda
Toyota
Nissan
VW
Saab
Volvo
Ford
GM

all made the list but Ferrari didn't...yet in terms of cool factor no doubt Ferrari would be way up on top.

Here's another list with very different rankings.:smile:

http://c3232792.r92.cf0.rackcdn.com/WPP_BrandZ_report_FINAL.pdf

 

[Nesh]

How did they count the "power" of the brand? When the majority cant buy your car because its expensive and aimed for a niche market you sure have a smaller sample to work with