Sony Home - The official thread*

[patsu]

Yeah, the problem with that is even though people post on the same site they're not necessarily my friend, you know? I'm not big on spamming my list with people I vaguely know, it sort of cheapens the service. It's like facebook, I'm the kind of guy with "only" 30 or 40 friends but they're all genuinely people I consider to be friends -- other people use the service to add people they've met just once in their life or know online.

Then it will take you some time to find "real" friends online, not necessarily a Home problem if you can't find any in 45 minutes.

I've got only a couple friends in real life with a PS3 and none of them play any games at all online, and maybe the odd game offline only -- so they're not on the list either. Most people use it as a media player/bluray player.

Not a Home problem. Since they are not online, giving them unified communication tool won't help too. They won't even bother with XBL online gaming either.

 

[Asher]

Then it will take you some time to find "real" friends online, not necessarily a Home problem if you can't find any in 45 minutes.

It is a Home problem if the type of people that flock to it are disruptive and immature.

Not a Home problem. Since they are not online, giving them unified communication tool won't help too. They won't even bother with XBL online gaming either.

They are online, just not with the PS3. They're online playing games all the time on the 360, but not the PS3. This is exactly the problem, you see -- the PS3's online functionality is so sparse and inconsistent that when people have a choice, they are overwhelmingly picking the 360 to play their games.

It's a chicken and the egg thing -- you keep hammering home the point that Home is about "making new friends" on the PS3. My point is -- why? I don't play games online on the PS3, and statistically and anecdotally it seems people who have a choice between the 360 and PS3 will play games online on the 360, and this is usually because it does have the fleshed out online system that is lacking on the PS3. So all of this focus on making Home so you can "meet new friends" -- nevermind its efficacy at that or lack thereof -- is misguided because there's really not a whole lot of point to having friends on the PSN right now, at least not when you have the choice between that on the 360.

Consider last night: I was playing Fable II on the 360 and then one of my friends from work sent a Rock Band 2 challenge my way along with a voice-message explaining how he and another guy from work were playing at his apartment and they needed another person. So I saved and accepted, then popped in the RB2 disc and played with them. This kind of feature is really why I have the friends list in the first place, and its absence on the PS3 is -- at this point in the game -- frankly rather pathetic. So in a lot of ways, my hatred from Home stems from the fact that I see it as a wasteful allocation of resources on somebody's toy project rather than using the money and resources to implement a real online system to compete with XBL.

 

[patsu]

It is a Home problem if the type of people that flock to it are disruptive and immature.

You mean like XBL ? Even MS admitted that their XBL user base is misbehaving and yet you managed to find 50 or so friends ? Like I said, it's up to you to make a difference.

There are people who misbehave in Home, there are great people too. In fact, Home has invisible (and visible) moderators to curb excessive behavior. The fundamental bottleneck here seems to be you, if you admitted that you take a long time to add friends.

They are online, just not with the PS3. They're online playing games all the time on the 360, but not the PS3. This is exactly the problem, you see -- the PS3's online functionality is so sparse and inconsistent that when people have a choice, they are overwhelmingly picking the 360 to play their games.

Sure, I assume they don't play any exclusive PS3 games

It's a chicken and the egg thing -- you keep hammering home the point that Home is about "making new friends" on the PS3. My point is -- why? I don't play games online on the PS3, and statistically and anecdotally it seems people who have a choice between the 360 and PS3 will play games online on the 360, and this is usually because it does have the fleshed out online system that is lacking on the PS3. So all of this focus on making Home so you can "meet new friends" -- nevermind its efficacy at that or lack thereof -- is misguided because there's really not a whole lot of point to having friends on the PSN right now, at least not when you have the choice between that on the 360.

Why not ? You don't play online games on PS3 and therefore you don't have a need. I play online games on PS3 and I have the need to make more new friends. There is no law that says Sony must start with one and not the other. If they are somehow bottlenecked in XMB, getting something going in Home first makes perfect sense.

In fact, it may help them design PSN better if additional requirements are clearer.

Consider last night: I was playing Fable II on the 360 and then one of my friends from work sent a Rock Band 2 challenge my way along with a voice-message explaining how he and another guy from work were playing at his apartment and they needed another person. So I saved and accepted, then popped in the RB2 disc and played with them. This kind of feature is really why I have the friends list in the first place, and its absence on the PS3 is -- at this point in the game -- frankly rather pathetic. So in a lot of ways, my hatred from Home stems from the fact that I see it as a wasteful allocation of resources on somebody's toy project rather than using the money and resources to implement a real online system to compete with XBL.

You can send XMB messages to anyone in any (new enough) game. The only thing is it doesn't launch the game automatically for you. I get messages from LBP players when I'm in Resistance. Not sure what the big deal is.

If all of us are in Home, then quiting say, R2, will return me back to Home. It takes a menu section for me to teleport to a friend's location. If he's already in a game, then I can play some Home mini-games while he wraps up the current session.

 

[Asher]

You mean like XBL ? Even MS admitted that their XBL user base is misbehaving and yet you managed to find 50 or so friends ? Like I said, it's up to you to make a difference.

Exactly -- it's exactly like XBL in that respect. Which is precisely why I think it's a terrible idea to put all of these people in one room with just one thing to do -- talk.

I stay away from random-player-games as much as possible, the idea of just being put in a room and having to just socialize with them is borderline terrifying for me...

There are people who misbehave in Home, there are great people too. In fact, Home has invisible (and visible) moderators to curb excessive behavior. The fundamental bottleneck here seems to be you, if you admitted that you take a long time to add friends.

I wouldn't describe myself as a bottleneck, but rather someone who is discerning. I've got tons of games to play across the PS3, Xbox 360, Wii, PC, and DS...I really do not have the time or motivation to sift though mountains of anti-social teenagers on Home to find some intelligent 25+ year old people. I've no doubt some are out there, yourself included, I just don't have the time or motivation to find them. And I think this is another fundamental problem with Home, is that it assumes people are all willing to do that -- some will, most won't.

Sure, I assume they don't play any exclusive PS3 games

There are very few exclusive PS3 games worth playing online, sadly...most of the online gaming these days are in Call of Duty, Halo 3, Rock Band/GH, or Left 4 Dead.

Why not ? You don't play online games on PS3 and therefore you don't have a need

But this is the problem -- I would love to play games online on the PS3. I'd love to ditch the XBL subscription and play a free service, I'd love to play crossplatform games that are implemented better on the PS3, I'd love to play games on a quieter platform. The problem is, Sony's incompetence with the online system rules it out as an option for me. If the game is multiplatform, it's a 360 purchase. If they put effort into fleshing out the online system, it'd be a contender...but it's not.

Home doesn't need to exist yet. It should launch with the PS4. What they need now is a competently fleshed-out and functional and ubiquitous online gaming service.

You can send XMB messages to anyone in any (new enough) game. The only thing is it doesn't launch the game automatically for you. I get messages from LBP players when I'm in Resistance. Not sure what the big deal is.

You've said it here. It doesn't affect all games, it doesn't actually integrate with the games with game invites, and even then the message system is pretty limited (it doesn't do voice yet, does it?). Considering how painful it is to type on game consoles, I don't ever type -- ever. It's voice or nothing.

 

[patsu]

Exactly -- it's exactly like XBL in that respect. Which is precisely why I think it's a terrible idea to put all of these people in one room with just one thing to do -- talk.

That's assuming everyone behaves like them.

A better idea is to allow good people to group and enjoy themselves. The clan idea is it. Home seems to be moving in that direction.

Plus Home has moderation for free. The moderators may appear invisible to the end users, but they are there.

I stay away from random-player-games as much as possible, the idea of just being put in a room and having to just socialize with them is borderline terrifying for me...

See ? It's back to your own choice and perception right ? Not sure what's so terrifying about Home.

I wouldn't describe myself as a bottleneck, but rather someone who is discerning. I've got tons of games to play across the PS3, Xbox 360, Wii, PC, and DS...I really do not have the time or motivation to sift though mountains of anti-social teenagers on Home to find some intelligent 25+ year old people. I've no doubt some are out there, yourself included, I just don't have the time or motivation to find them. And I think this is another fundamental problem with Home, is that it assumes people are all willing to do that -- some will, most won't.

... which is why I said you are not one of them/us. Some people enjoy talking to others. Once they have identified a core friendly group, the others can benefit from the initial user filtering.

There are very few exclusive PS3 games worth playing online, sadly...most of the online gaming these days are in Call of Duty, Halo 3, Rock Band/GH, or Left 4 Dead.

I play R2, SingStar, LBP rather frequently. Some may like MGO, MS2, GT5P better; but at the end of the day, it's all personal preferences.

But this is the problem -- I would love to play games online on the PS3. I'd love to ditch the XBL subscription and play a free service, I'd love to play crossplatform games that are implemented better on the PS3, I'd love to play games on a quieter platform. The problem is, Sony's incompetence with the online system rules it out as an option for me. If the game is multiplatform, it's a 360 purchase. If they put effort into fleshing out the online system, it'd be a contender...but it's not.

It's your choice, sir.

Home doesn't need to exist yet. It should launch with the PS4. What they need now is a competently fleshed-out and functional and ubiquitous online gaming service.

Nope. Grooming a community takes a long time. They should start as soon as possible. They should have started with Socom on PS2.

You've said it here. It doesn't affect all games, it doesn't actually integrate with the games with game invites, and even then the message system is pretty limited (it doesn't do voice yet, does it?). Considering how painful it is to type on game consoles, I don't ever type -- ever. It's voice or nothing.

PS3 games support in-game XMB for a long time now. Free voice chat is indeed turned on in Home private spaces. Typing in Home is not mandatory (which makes me wonder what you did in Home for 45 minutes). In R1, we have a mix of text and voice chat, that works out really really well. Text and voice chat each have their own strengths.

Based on wco81's posts, EA may have some issues with in-game party management, but Home has one if EA is interested to work with them.

The problem is game launching is not production yet (Although the UI has been there since day one, and they had it working for closed beta).

 

[deathindustrial]

I hadn't been on Home for a while and decided to check out what if anything the new update brought to the table. It took about 20 minutes to download the latest patch which can't be done in the background of course. After installing that it was another 3 or so loading bars before I got into my apartment (one of which looks new, yay). From there I decided to go see if there was any chance of playing the Red Bull plane game but lo and behold, I have to re-download the space yet again. Since that was also crawling speedwise I put that in the background. No new spaces on the map (the talk about all these companies and such being excited is obviously just that). Spent about 5 minutes in Sully's bar (mostly waiting for for Avatar's to materialize) before exiting to actually do something fun.

Even as a talker Home has tested my patience. I was more upbeat about it before (even bought a USB keyboard to use with it) but the fact they require re-downloading spaces every time anything is updated is a deal breaker. . .simply takes too much time wasted waiting for the software to housekeep.

As a launching service it equals epic fail unless they can get the time to load down to something significantly less than excruciating. Also assuming anything beyond Warhawk actually ever makes it on the launch list which I have my doubts (and the likelihood of older games getting this added like BF:BC is probably nil).

Disappointing.

As an aside, why are you such a fearless cheerleader for Home Patsu? Your patience never seems to get tested.

=)

Cheers

 

[patsu]

I hadn't been on Home for a while and decided to check out what if anything the new update brought to the table. It took about 20 minutes to download the latest patch which can't be done in the background of course. After installing that it was another 3 or so loading bars before I got into my apartment (one of which looks new, yay). From there I decided to go see if there was any chance of playing the Red Bull plane game but lo and behold, I have to re-download the space yet again. Since that was also crawling speedwise I put that in the background. No new spaces on the map (the talk about all these companies and such being excited is obviously just that). Spent about 5 minutes in Sully's bar (mostly waiting for for Avatar's to materialize) before exiting to actually do something fun.

You have to redownload the Red Bull space because they changed it (Added a leader board). I don't remember having to redownload the movie theater for example. I have stopped visiting other spaces (Not much things to do in Sully's Bar after jonabbey summoned me to one of the secret rooms).

Even as a talker Home has tested my patience. I was more upbeat about it before (even bought a USB keyboard to use with it) but the fact they require re-downloading spaces every time anything is updated is a deal breaker. . .simply takes too much time wasted waiting for the software to housekeep.

The redownloading is annoying and wasteful. I was under the impression that they'd fixed it. You don't have to redownload any space if there's no real changes. I could be wrong though since I haven't visited other spaces except for the standard ones and the Red Bull island.

As a launching service it equals epic fail unless they can get the time to load down to something significantly less than excruciating. Also assuming anything beyond Warhawk actually ever makes it on the launch list which I have my doubts (and the likelihood of older games getting this added like BF:BC is probably nil).

Disappointing.

Yap, they should keep optimizing the experience -- including adding a 2D option to it.

As an aside, why are you such a fearless cheerleader for Home Patsu? Your patience never seems to get tested.

Ah, because I can see where the concept is going, and what the end user values are -- *if* Sony plays its cards right. I have done something similar more than a decade ago, including delayed rollouts, long development hours, real user responses (and partying with 'em ), plus interacting with many commercial partners.

The idea is not new per se, but there are some twists specific to PS3. Most of Sony's problems are related to their execution or implementation. The concept may require refinement, but it's by and large sound.

 

[betan]

As an aside, why are you such a fearless cheerleader for Home Patsu? Your patience never seems to get tested.

Is he really the one whose unlimited energy to discuss Home surprised you most? Seriously?

 

[patsu]

... plus I am in the business long enough to know that "alternate" ideas like Home will take unusually long to realize. I used similar approach too (pre-announce too early to secure high level buy-in >_<).

From their recent release note, I can kinda guess what sort of technical and project issues they were grappling with. In general, I'd say Sony top management should watch this one closely and try to make a difference. The internal builds are more advanced tactically but a proper analysis may reveal subtle opportunities/questions that will change the course and strategic value of the project.

 

[jonabbey]

There are very few exclusive PS3 games worth playing online, sadly...most of the online gaming these days are in Call of Duty, Halo 3, Rock Band/GH, or Left 4 Dead.

I have to give a shout out to Warhawk, here. ;-)

But this is the problem -- I would love to play games online on the PS3. I'd love to ditch the XBL subscription and play a free service, I'd love to play crossplatform games that are implemented better on the PS3, I'd love to play games on a quieter platform. The problem is, Sony's incompetence with the online system rules it out as an option for me. If the game is multiplatform, it's a 360 purchase. If they put effort into fleshing out the online system, it'd be a contender...but it's not.

Home doesn't need to exist yet. It should launch with the PS4. What they need now is a competently fleshed-out and functional and ubiquitous online gaming service.


You've said it here. It doesn't affect all games, it doesn't actually integrate with the games with game invites, and even then the message system is pretty limited (it doesn't do voice yet, does it?). Considering how painful it is to type on game consoles, I don't ever type -- ever. It's voice or nothing.

Sony has been very good about providing a constant stream of upgrades to the system. Supposedly, the 2.60 release allows games to have more than one PSN account logged in concurrently, though there has been no surfacing of this in the XMB.

Now that they've got Blu-Ray sorted and the (*cough*) photo gallery app out, perhaps they'll focus more on XBox Live style features.

 

[patsu]

May be it's just coincidence (or synchronicity), but every time someone complained about Home, we get a slew of announcements from Sony around the same time.

(1) 24 Home developer licenses issued (probably cummulative): http://www.virtualworldsnews.com/2009/02/sony-reveals-24-licensed-developers-for-home.html

(2) More content update and Ninja Day event in US Home:
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2009/02/10/i-love-ninjas-in-playstation-home/

As you may have heard, Capcom is set to expand its blockbuster franchises globally with Street Fighter and Resident Evil within PlayStation Home. Resident Evil 5 fans can launch straight from PlayStation Home into the game. And for the Street Fighter fans, Capcom is bringing Street Fighter IV costumes and additional themed content to PlayStation Home, much of which will be unlocked through in-game actions.

in the next few months, gamers will find even more clothing, furniture and events taking place throughout PlayStation Home, including the launch of the Warhawk space (complete with game launching), SOCOM space, and the recently announced Gamer’s Lounge. This will be another hang-out space for the community to mix and mingle, just like you would at a real lounge. We will also hold special events here such as developer talks and parties. Along with the spaces, you can bet you’ll find even more impromptu promotions and giveaways taking place.

And as for the ninjas …. On February 12th, sweet ninja outfits will be available for purchase at the Mall to dress your PlayStation Home avatar up in. Yeah, ninja outfits! And to celebrate their arrival, we’re holding a contest: On February 13th, we’ll be holding an event called “I Love Ninjas.” The first instance of the brand-new community-named Home hang-out space, the Gamer’s Lounge, to be completely filled with people in ninja costumes (or a reasonable facsimile using all-black clothing items in your inventory) that we see will win vouchers for SOCOM and Warhawk to celebrate the upcoming spaces.

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3home&thread.id=563729

This means that, in the last week alone, we've announced spaces, items, and other themed-content for Warhawk, SOCOM, Resistance, Street Fighter IV, and Resident Evil 5. These areas boast everything from unlockables to game launching capabilities to expclusive minigames to special virtual items (don't forget about the EA Complex either).

We've also announced a new public space in Home, the Gamer's Lounge (named by Home resident lowridertk84). And an event to coincide with its launch, the I Love Ninjas event (scheduled for Friday the 13th, at 6pm PT/9pm EST).

Additionally, we've announced that Picture Frames are, indeed, coming, along with that 10-screen Theater everyone has been asking for, new apartments and private spaces, new music in Listen@Home, and new VIs.

... blah ...

(3) In Asia Home: http://asia.playstation.com/tw/cht/news/latestNewsDetail/40230

Translation: Something about celeb MV and people hunting (Looking for PS Girl and Da Mouth [a Hip-Hop band in Taiwan it seems]).



EDIT: The level of energy is there, but most are still rather tactical. Looks like I should post in their official forum again to give them more feedback.

 

[Asher]

So they're launching in-game launching for Warhawk (do people honestly still play that?) and RE5 (which may be cool, but I'm willing to bet the implementation will be hamfisted at best), they're adding more clothing and more spaces and...

Really the only thing new there was the RE5 game-launching space. The other stuff is to be expected.

 

[patsu]

So they're launching in-game launching for Warhawk (do people honestly still play that?) and RE5 (which may be cool, but I'm willing to bet the implementation will be hamfisted at best), they're adding more clothing and more spaces and...

Again, you might not play PS3 games. Many people do in fact partake in Warhawk battles, even today: http://ps3.ign.com/articles/949/949666p3.html

Warhawk
Released: 8/07
Online Activity: High

There are some that would say Warhawk is Sony's trump card. Despite having been released going on almost a year and a half ago, despite what seems like a bazillion expansions and add-ons, despite requiring a bit more teamwork than most online multiplayer games, Warhawk is an exquisitely balanced, insanely fun game that works on multiple scales simultaneously. We have no shame in calling it one of the best multiplayer experience we've ever had, and it would seem we're not alone. Warhawk is still packed with people that play at all hours of the day or night (thanks no doubt to the game being open worldwide), so finding a game, be it on the newbie servers so you can get your bearings or on the rock-solid, lag-free official servers or just creating one of your own to play with friends is absolute cake. This is probably the surest game on our list.

I myself can't play Warhawk (Can't pilot the planes well enough).

Really the only thing new there was the RE5 game-launching space. The other stuff is to be expected.

They are new in Home. *shrug*

 

[patsu]

PSP, Idol Master SP connect with Home

PSP title integration with Home:
http://www.andriasang.com/e/articles/2009/02/10/idol_master_sp_home_support/

Sony's PlayStation Home service will be seeing support not just from PS3 titles, but from PSP titles as well. Gpara reveals today that Bandai Namco's Idol Master SP will be featured as part of a few tie-up campaigns with the virtual world.

Home connectivity for the game will kick off on the 12th. Bandai Namco's Carrot and Play Max virtual spaces will be updated on this day with Idol Master visual themes and Idol Master items. These items can be used throughout the Home virtual space.

Home Reward support is also on the way. Players will earn Home Reward items as they progress through Idol Master SP. This feature will, of course, not be accessible until the 19th, when the game sees PSP release.

Neat but still too scattered from end user's perspective.

 

[tirminyl]

I like the new announcements but if we can just get around of having to re-download everything every time they add something I would visit more, lol.

 

[patsu]

They are holding a live chat to gather feedback tomorrow:
http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3home&thread.id=565349

What: A virtual chat with CydoniaX and Locust_Star, focusing on gathering community requests/feedback and answering some choice frequently asked questions.

Where: Gamer's Lounge

Why: Because the Gamer's Lounge isn't just a place to conduct business-as-usual, its a gathering spot for users to discuss teh direction of Home, with everyone from Community Management to 1st and 3rd Party Developers and so on.

When: Thursday, February 12th, 2009 from 1-2PM PT (4-5PM EST) and 5-6PM PT (8-9PM EST)

Note: We will be instance jumping during this event, so if we're not there when you show up, hang tight with your friends and we'll be around as soon as we can.

 

[-tkf-]

I like the new announcements but if we can just get around of having to re-download everything every time they add something I would visit more, lol.

They should simply offer the user the choice to background download everything new when they login.

When i logged in last night, i queue all the "special" places and waited a bit in my apartment, then i could jump around between the places. And got a PSP-3000 hat, that special event place was pretty nicely done

 

[Delta9]

I think Home is great and is clearly the best avatar system on consoles. 360's is basically useless to me ,all they do is shake a head and it just makes the dash look terrible, I honestly won't even turn on the box around people that are not into games because it just looks embarassing like I made a kiddy theme on purpose or something.

It's really amazing to me how good Home looks and runs with all the stuff going on and the fact it's free is just awesome.

Home is definitely a great feature to PS3.

 

[patsu]

I personally prefer something like Mainichi Issho or LittleBigPlanet. They are on the cute side, but very functional. Lot's of collectible items and content too !

 

[Arwin]

I just saw the leaderboards in action tonight for Red Bull Racing ... they are a very good addition, especially as they include the friends list option.