Sony @ E3

[Titanio]

Hmm. Confusing. I'm pretty sure there was a rumour going around that Insomniac were now working on a different, non-Ratchet based FPS for PS3.

 

[nAo]

Insomniac is working on a FPS (PS3). I heard some months ago they already had some kind of prototype running on PC.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I think Marco was talking about another game, that one's not a FPS.

Yep I thought that he was talking about that game, because I have seen some news saying that it is fps game eventhough it's not. I'm not personally too happy about the new direction of Jak/Ratched series. I hope they return to their original form on PS3.

 

[London Geezer]

I think Marco was talking about another game, that one's not a FPS.

Yep I thought that he was talking about that game, because I have seen some news saying that it is fps game eventhough it's not. I'm not personally too happy about the new direction of Jak/Ratched series. I hope they return to their original form on PS3.

Seeing the miracles they did on PS2 (especially Naughty Dog), i can't imagine what they'll do on next gen hardware...

 

[PC-Engine]

Here is hoping that both systems have a hd-dvd drive which should be cheaper when they both launch

LOL
Blue-laser drives cost almost the same money be it blu-ray or HD-DVD (Sony develops blue laser diode with Nichia so it's cheaper than the market price anyway). What's different is the cost for disc manufacturing.

Well the PUH of HD DVD should be cheaper since it's basically a DVD PUH with a blue laser.

Capacity is proportional to disc surface area. Scale the UMD up to 12cm size of a standard DVD and you'll find that the capacity per layer should actually be slightly larger then that of DVD-5.

Uh why compare a dual layer UMD to a single layer DVD? A single layer miniDVD is 1.5GB, a dual layer miniDVD is 3GB.

 

[marconelly!]

Quessing is not needed. Your info is incorrect.

Haha, I don't think so. I'm fairly sure that Insomniac is in fact working on a PS3 FPS game. Ratched Deadlocked has nothing to do with it.

A single layer miniDVD is 1.5GB

It is also bigger than UMD.
I think he's correct in that surface-for-surface, UMD has slightly higher capacity than DVD.

 

[PC-Engine]

Quessing is not needed. Your info is incorrect.

Haha, I don't think so. I'm fairly sure that Insomniac is in fact working on a PS3 FPS game. Ratched Deadlocked has nothing to do with it.

A single layer miniDVD is 1.5GB

It is also bigger than UMD.
I think he's correct in that surface-for-surface, UMD has slightly higher capacity than DVD.

Of course it's bigger, but by how much? miniDVD 3" = 76mm, UMD = 60mm. A 76mm dual layer UMD would only be around 2.3GB vs the same sized miniDVD's 2.9GB.

 

[cthellis42]

Uh why compare a dual layer UMD to a single layer DVD? A single layer miniDVD is 1.5GB, a dual layer miniDVD is 3GB.

Why bring mini-DVD into it when the comment was making a direct comment complaining UMD and DVD?

We all KNOW why Sony developed UMD--to have a fully proprietary format that they could also control access to recorders and recordable media on, as well as saving on any extra fees they'd have to pay elsewhere. It makes sense for a device like the PSP (as well as trying to throw a bone to music/video publishers on piracy concerns for that format), but makes none for the PS3, which has wider concerns as a more universal media player.

What would be the point of developing a 12cm UMD media format if they would then have to open it up to where DVD is and where they want BR to be? It don't. The main advantage for consumers would be to... what? Play PSP games on your PS3? Ain't much point of that, and Sony wants you buying a PSP to play PSP games, so...

 

[PC-Engine]

Why bring mini-DVD into it when the comment was making a direct comment complaining UMD and DVD?

Maybe because miniDVD and DVD have the same areal density ie scaling from 3" to 5.25" doesn't change the density? If a 3" miniDVD holds more data than a hypothetical 3" UMD then a 12cm DVD holds more data than a hypothetical 12cm UMD.

BTW the hub of a DVD is much larger than UMD so the areal density is even higher than UMD.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Of course it's bigger, but by how much? miniDVD 3" = 76mm, UMD = 60mm. A 76mm dual layer UMD would only be around 2.3GB vs the same sized miniDVD's 2.9GB.

If a single layer UMD disc at 60mm is 1.8GB, surely at 76mm and using two layers it's more than 2.3GB.

 

[PC-Engine]

Of course it's bigger, but by how much? miniDVD 3" = 76mm, UMD = 60mm. A 76mm dual layer UMD would only be around 2.3GB vs the same sized miniDVD's 2.9GB.

If a single layer UMD disc at 60mm is 1.8GB, surely at 76mm and using two layers it's more than 2.3GB.

1.8GB is for a dual layer UMD...

 

[Fafalada]

Uh why compare a dual layer UMD to a single layer DVD?

...and you'll find that the capacity per layer should actually be...

Of course it's bigger, but by how much? miniDVD 3" = 76mm, UMD = 60mm. A 76mm dual layer UMD would only be around 2.3GB

So you also think that a fullsized duallayer DVD has capacity of only 4.7GB?

While on topic - dual layer is also Smaller then (single layer)*2 in capacity, so that part of your math is not really correct either. We've discussed this on this very board like a week or so ago.

 

[one]

Well the PUH of HD DVD should be cheaper since it's basically a DVD PUH with a blue laser.

An HD DVD optical head requires a tilt control servo while BD doesn't.

 

[PC-Engine]

Uh why compare a dual layer UMD to a single layer DVD?

...and you'll find that the capacity per layer should actually be...

Of course it's bigger, but by how much? miniDVD 3" = 76mm, UMD = 60mm. A 76mm dual layer UMD would only be around 2.3GB

So you also think that a fullsized duallayer DVD has capacity of only 4.7GB?

While on topic - dual layer is also Smaller then (single layer)*2 in capacity, so that part of your math is not really correct either. We've discussed this on this very board like a week or so ago.

Huh? What are you smoking? Doesn't matter if you're talking about single layer or dual layer. DVD has higher areal density PER LAYER than UMD period! 4.7*2 ~ uh 9.5, That's not much of a difference from 8.5.

Well the PUH of HD DVD should be cheaper since it's basically a DVD PUH with a blue laser.

An HD DVD optical head requires a tilt control servo while BD doesn't.

DVD PUHs already have tilt control and if Blu-ray wants to read DVDs then they'll also have tilt control.

 

[Fafalada]

Huh? What are you smoking?

I was referring to how you scaled disc capacity in your math. Using your scaling on miniDVD->DVD, you get - 4.7GB for 12cm DualLayer DVD

 

[PC-Engine]

Huh? What are you smoking?

I was referring to how you scaled disc capacity in your math. Using your scaling on miniDVD->DVD, you get - 4.7GB for 12cm DualLayer DVD

Well I was lazy, didn't want to have to use 2*3.14*Radius^2. Doesn't matter though since you're still wrong.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Of course it's bigger, but by how much? miniDVD 3" = 76mm, UMD = 60mm. A 76mm dual layer UMD would only be around 2.3GB vs the same sized miniDVD's 2.9GB.

If a single layer UMD disc at 60mm is 1.8GB, surely at 76mm and using two layers it's more than 2.3GB.

1.8GB is for a dual layer UMD...

I always thought that 1.8GB is for just one layer, well it's nice to learn new things

 

[Fafalada]

Well I was lazy, didn't want to have to use 2*3.14*Radius^2.

And you didn't account for the size of the donut's inner circle. Anyway I was a bit off myself since I assumed the hole was larger then it really is in UMD.

Corrected scaling gives around 7.9GB for duallayer UMD, or roughly 4.35GB for single layer (assuming the same penalty for duallayers as DVD - roughly 10%).
So it's the DVD that's slightly bigger, but my point stands about this being a stupid idea for nexgen console format.

 

[cthellis42]

While on topic - dual layer is also Smaller then (single layer)*2 in capacity, so that part of your math is not really correct either. We've discussed this on this very board like a week or so ago.

He's just rounding the listed specs on the media currently being produced (which has some variance, but seems to sit at 1.46/2.92 more often than not.)

I'm more inclined to question why the "76mm" comment and not the 8cm that's always listed as mini DVD's diameter. Layer-size? Then PSP isn't precisely 60mm itself, is it? (Eyeballing pics is too hard to make a determination, but I would guess no more than 58.) Hub area counts too, of course, but not as much as the outer rim. That, too, would need more precise measurements before being able to bring it into context.

But let's neutralize all other factors right now and just approximate what an increase from 60cm to 80cm would amount to. 1.8GB would become 3.2GB. (The rote area difference between the two is 1.777-repeating.) That gives almost a 10% sway on other factors (non-layer edging and hub size) before the two are EQUAL, let alone losing out in any notable way. OMGWTFSUXXORS!

I assume it's probably the rote disk-size comparison Faf is going by, which excludes some factors, but until we actually know what the exact layer specifics ARE we can't perform proper math, so... IMHO, the difference between them would be negligible anyway. The arguement is rather pointless.

Incidentally, this is the reason I rolled my eyes at adding mini-DVD to the mix. The comparison was between two specific formats, and you're going to do the same kind of math to make the comparison, so... why bother adding another to the mix? An 80mm mini-DVD doesn't actually scale evenly to a 120mm DVD either; the interior circumference makes much more proportional difference to smaller disks than bigger ones. It's still comparing different beasts, requiring different math.

Well I was lazy, didn't want to have to use 2*3.14*Radius^2. Doesn't matter though since you're still wrong.

You were both lazy and incorrect. You can't use the same simple math to compare UMD to DVD as you do UMD to mini-DVD as you do mini-DVD to DVD, so... But hey, nice try to be condescending as usual.



Meanwhile, NONE of this has anything to do with the reason they adopted UMD for the PSP and going with mainstream media formats with the PS3.

 

[marconelly!]

from the person who is invited by tecmo to play as one of the few DOA4

I'm assuming he's heard that rumor somewhere else, and not from Tecmo? I'd imagine they would not be very high on the list of PS3 information updates